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LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

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Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#101

Post by laythea »

rwallace wrote: post #99
misja111 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What SAP and Oracle have in common is that they have a very capable sales force, that is able to convince companies that their business case will fit nicely into their model. Then, once the implementation is ongoing and it turns out that there are some corner cases which were overlooked and that don't fit into the SAP model at all, SAP has another option available: hire their expensive consultants. Depending on how l…

Do you know of any case studies of companies being completely destroyed by this process? I have certainly heard of such projects getting into trouble, would be interested to know of any cases where it went as far as the customer going bankrupt.

If such a case exists, in my opinion, it would say more about the company than SAP.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#102

Post by patja »

I was a project leader on a successful SAP implementation at a DOW 30 firm back in the 90's. This was a third attempt at it, and I think I may be one of the only people who was on the team for attempts #1 and #2 which failed.

One of the simplest things an SAP implementation team can do to promote their success is to strictly limit the number of ABAP developers on the team. Developers are going to develop and while some customization will be needed, with a team of 10 or 20 ABAP developers you are going to generate way more customizations than you will with only 3 or 5 developers. Resource and skill scarcity will drive the discussions of "do we need this?"

More rare is that you also you need an exec sponsor at a CxO level (other than the CIO) who has the intestinal fortitude and leadership skills to tell their employees "we are going to conform our process to what the software offers" rather than the opposite. Your unique methods of fixed asset management and accounting (to take one example) are not where your company needs to invest in being different from every other company, much as your accounting manager who rails "this is how we always have done it because of our special situation" will complain to the contrary unless the CFO is telling them otherwise.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#103

Post by bumholio »

netinmate wrote: post #86

Customization is key, you CAN't customize. I worked on an SAP implementation, a Fortune 500 company, complexity like crazy, sub-companies, of sub-companies, of sub-companies, federal, state and local compliance for what the company did, operating in 50 states, with an International supply chain, and our integrator was nothing special. We held firm to the NO CUSTOMIZATION rule, we re-engineered our processes to fit SA…

> we re-engineered our processes to fit SAP.

That sounds just about like the most revolting and negative endorsement you can make for a business solution.

Every company is special and the flexibility to adapt to a changing environment is what keeps a company alive during those times of crisis, that always come. "We can't do this because the system does not allow it" is great and expected at the warehouse worker level, annoying at the branch manager level and catastrophic at senior management level.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#104

Post by baxtr »

What I came to realize after reading all these insightful comments is this: whenever a company buys SAP, they also buy an ERP or whatever system but, most often, they buy first and foremost safety. Safety that everybody else is using the same system (social proof). Often this includes the personal safety of the CIO for not getting fired if anything goes wrong...

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#105

Post by patja »

vertex-four wrote: post #38
simias wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know much about SAP besides the fact that I don't think I've ever heard anything positive about it (but then again, nobody talks about the trains that are on time). I always assumed that it was a "nobody gets fired for choosing SAP" situation. It's huge, it might be clunky but you know that if you pay for the support it'll probably end up doing mostly what you want and it'll mostly keep working. The alternati…

The problem is, I think, that using SAP essentially is creating your own solution in-house... but being tied to a certain amount of structure from the start rather than being able to go off and completely do your own thing. The way it’s implemented also doesn’t generally allow for creating small solutions and building up - either the entire project succeeds several years after it’s started, or it all fails.

I once worked with an SAP consultant who had worked on SAP projects that were 100% custom development. They used it strictly as a form-building app dev platform with solid scalable transaction processing and reporting capabilities, and used zero of the pre-defined configuration or data structures. I think they had a bit of the "when your only tool is a hammer" mentality.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#106

Post by patja »

sparkling wrote: post #54
DrinkWater wrote: post #11

SAP was, and will always stay, a mystery to me. It is ridiculously expensive and complex. I know that the problems it aims to solve are also highly complex and very specific, but reading stories like this, plus (if you live in Germany and work in the IT industry) sometimes hearing unbelievable stories from your peers, it always confuses me that companies still want so much SAP. In the late 90s/early 00s a lot of peop…

I have not yet seen a SAP software that could not be replaced with a homemade Django/Rails web app (90% CRUD) and some external API integrations to other services that may exist in the company such HR, invoicing etc. Of course, at the fraction of the the cost of the SAP solution.

There might be more offered by SAP than you are accounting for. You would have to re-create all of the features for things like demand management aggregated forecasting by product line, including integration with supply chain ordering and EDI integration with your global suppliers and customers. You might also need a solution for maintaining separate general ledgers for local hyperinflationary accounting requirements in Brazil in parallel with GAAP reporting in the US. And those other services such as HR and invoicing...they are also all in the box with SAP if you choose to go whole hog.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#107

Post by thinkingemote »

patman81 wrote: post #37
antpls wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My model is basic, but at $1200/day per consultant, with 100 consultants, that's still about 4160 days, or about 11 years. Not what I would consider fast.

One way to calculate: 7years × 365days × 2k/day × 100 "experts" = 500m

People don't tend to work every day in a week, and there are holidays etc.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#108

Post by coldtea »

DrinkWater wrote: post #11

SAP was, and will always stay, a mystery to me. It is ridiculously expensive and complex. I know that the problems it aims to solve are also highly complex and very specific, but reading stories like this, plus (if you live in Germany and work in the IT industry) sometimes hearing unbelievable stories from your peers, it always confuses me that companies still want so much SAP. In the late 90s/early 00s a lot of peop…

>In the late 90s/early 00s a lot of people had seemingly infinite trust in IBM.

You probably conflate that period with the 60s-70s.

In the late 90s/00s it was when IBM regained some mojo by adopting Linux and OSS and building on top of them.

It was not its time of "infinite trust", but a time of a recovery into "some trust".

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#109

Post by barrkel »

bumholio wrote: post #103
netinmate wrote: post #86

Customization is key, you CAN't customize. I worked on an SAP implementation, a Fortune 500 company, complexity like crazy, sub-companies, of sub-companies, of sub-companies, federal, state and local compliance for what the company did, operating in 50 states, with an International supply chain, and our integrator was nothing special. We held firm to the NO CUSTOMIZATION rule, we re-engineered our processes to fit SA…

> we re-engineered our processes to fit SAP. That sounds just about like the most revolting and negative endorsement you can make for a business solution. Every company is special and the flexibility to adapt to a changing environment is what keeps a company alive during those times of crisis, that always come. "We can't do this because the system does not allow it" is great and expected at the warehouse worker level…

Competitive advantage is rarely in processes that a company is trying to replace or automate with third party software.

Re: LIDL cancels SAP introduction after spending 500M Euro

#110

Post by patja »

syntaxing wrote: post #68

Anyone have a good recommendation for SAP alternative for small medium businesses (SMB)? All the companies I work for use something equally convoluted like Oracle and SAP. When I worked at a startup, I debated for a long time which ERP/PDM system will be the most effective (which I never answered).

Have you looked at Microsoft's product? Whatever label they have put on the stuff they bought from that company in Fargo...Dynamics?
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