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Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

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Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#101

Post by StavrosK »

realusername wrote: post #98
StavrosK wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Laws that put Europe behind the rest of the world in how easy it is to build online services It is, indeed, inconvenient to consider the rights of the users when building a service, especially when they aren't the ones who pay you for it. Still, I'm not sure it's such a bad idea.

This law is only about copyright. I'm all for supporting user privacy with the GDPR but I don't want to support outdated copyright holders with stupid taxes.

Sure, but it's hardly a trend. This is the first (pair of) bad laws I'm aware of recently.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#102

Post by pluma »

TekMol wrote: post #2

The web is becoming more and more fragmented. I wonder where this will lead to. Europe seems to fall behind the US at an accelerating pace. During the last two decades, Europe already failed to take part in building the internet. Now Europeans all use US services. Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Google, Dropbox, AirBnB, Uber... This was due to the culture of Europes entrepreneurs which is often "bureaucracy first, product la…

Ironically laws like the GDPR actually even the scales for European companies targeting the European market. Previously American companies got away with a blatant disregard for local privacy laws whereas European companies had to do their homework.

Now everybody is affected equally and in fact European companies may have a first mover advantage because the GDPR closely matches the privacy laws several European countries had already implemented previously (whereas US companies in some cases may need to start over from scratch if they want to ensure their compliance).

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#103

Post by smnrchrds »

chronic821 wrote: post #91
smnrchrds wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If all worker protection laws (minimum wage, holiday, overtime, safety regulations, etc.) are repealed tomorrow, there would be a huge jump in S&P500. If America does this, should Europe follow suit lest it falls behind? It is best to maximize quality of life for citizens, not total stock market index.

> It is best to maximize quality of life for citizens, not total stock market index. Feel free to relocate if you're not pleased with the quality of life where you currently live.

That's funny. Moving to a different country is a complicated and long process. It can take over a decade, require thousands of dollars in expenses and hundreds of hours of work. Investing in another country's stock market takes 5 minutes and you can do it on your phone. Shouldn't it be "feel free to buy a different index fund if you're not pleased with the growth in your country's index," instead of "feel free to relocate if you're not pleased with the quality of life where you currently live"?

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#104

Post by riffraff »

Kliment wrote: post #74
riffraff wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is arguable whether this impacts freedom of speech, and it would be argued differently in different jurisdictions.

It absolutely does - when this same law was implemented in Germany as a national law it was struck down by the constitutional court.

Germany is not all jurisdictions, that is the point.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#105

Post by riffraff »

urlwolf wrote: post #88
riffraff wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very important comment, as it means the initiative is "snowballing". It's a shame it's buried behind pointless discussion on whether the EU has internet giants.

I'm European, and pro-EU. Yet, everyone I respect in my inner circle is crystal-clear about one thing: EU has lost. There's US, there's CN... and a big hole where EU should be. In technology, EU is not a contender, and will never be. Demographics and culture prevent it. I've worked extremely hard to change this for four years, but I have given up.

it may be, but it's only tangentially related to the topic at hand.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#106

Post by vsl »

ajmurmann wrote: post #35
TekMol wrote: post #2

The web is becoming more and more fragmented. I wonder where this will lead to. Europe seems to fall behind the US at an accelerating pace. During the last two decades, Europe already failed to take part in building the internet. Now Europeans all use US services. Amazon, Ebay, Facebook, Google, Dropbox, AirBnB, Uber... This was due to the culture of Europes entrepreneurs which is often "bureaucracy first, product la…

It's easy to blame European lawmakers. However, Europe is a much harder market to operate in with our without laws that add bureaucratic overhead. Europe is really several much smaller markets. If you want to launch your startup in Europe you are likely only going to initially launch in let's say the French or German market. To get to the other markets you have not only to translate your product, but redo marketing,…

It may not be only that, but it sure as hell plays an important role.

I am EU-based developer, the majority of my customers are in EU, and I pay a US company 8.9% of revenue to avoid the crippling VATMOSS bureaucracy - because it’s cheaper that way. Not avoiding VAT, mind you, I still collect the enormous 20+% tax on sales, just avoiding the associated hassle.

And that’s just one example.

Re: Spanish Wikipedia also shuts down in protest at proposed EU copyright law

#107

Post by vsl »

chronic821 wrote: post #91
smnrchrds wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. If all worker protection laws (minimum wage, holiday, overtime, safety regulations, etc.) are repealed tomorrow, there would be a huge jump in S&P500. If America does this, should Europe follow suit lest it falls behind? It is best to maximize quality of life for citizens, not total stock market index.

> It is best to maximize quality of life for citizens, not total stock market index. Feel free to relocate if you're not pleased with the quality of life where you currently live.

That’s an incredibly dishonest put-down certain sort of people use.

For one thing, it’s not exactly easy to move to another country, not since World War I. You can’t simply pick a country and move to it - and you full well known that when you dismiss somebody with this sentence.

For another, I like my country. And I have every right to not like where it’s heading. “If you don’t like my politics, emigrate” is preposterous.

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