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Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

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Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#101

On the other hand, I am getting tired of the way that Ubuntu is focusing so much on getting its fonts right, that critical aspects like suspend/resume are broken, but not fixed. Bug 568711 ( https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/568711)... particularly nasty because it is a confirmed bug in suspend/resume that has a lot of people being affected by it - but has been relegated to medium severity and is c…

> On the other hand, I am getting tired of the way that Ubuntu is focusing so much on getting its fonts right, that critical aspects like suspend/resume are broken, but not fixed.

You do know that a company can work on more than one thing at a time, right?

Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#102
post #95
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had similar issues with Ubuntu upgrades in the past. I went to Debian (stable) instead, figuring the longer upgrade cycles would mean fewer problems. That was all well and good until I needed to enable backports to upgrade Firefox to >=3.5 for work. Now the package manager's broken due to some weird dependency issues. I don't understand why there is no free software equivalent of Apple, selling (laptop) hardware…

There are a couple such companies, I think. One is called Emperor Linux (if it's still in business) and offered reasonably late-model Vaio laptops among others.

And to my knowledge none of them do direct distro maintenance to keep the laptops they've sold supported -- they just resell OEM (Sager-style) laptops that they spec conservatively so that all the hardware is supported when sold.

Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#103
post #44
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, nice to see a light, pale theme, like in Mac OS. It's much easier on the eyes, at least for me.

Anybody else think this is the first ever professional looking Linux distro they've ever seen? Congrats to the Ubuntu team.

I was impressed by Mint http://www.linuxmint.com/

Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#104
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fwiw, all these laptop issues (especially this suspend/resume bug after I upgraded to Hardy) were what convinced me to get a mac. The only people I know with problem-free linux systems are desktop users.

That's not true. I have a one year old Dell Inspiron 1525 with Ubuntu. Not the best laptop ever but at least since Ubuntu 9.10 ... 3D graphics worked out of the box (open-source, Intel), Wifi worked out of the box (not so on OpenSuse or Debian), the built-in webcam worked out of the box, practically everything is up and running as soon as you install Ubuntu, no extra configuration required. Not only that, but I also…

I have a several-year-old Dell Vostro 1400, completely stock, and as I mentioned in a different comment, every distro update since Hardy has broken something that used to work. Intrepid broke wireless--I had to swap out my Broadcom wifi card for an Intel one. Jaunty broke graphics--I couldn't use Compiz without doing some insanely obscure rollback patch to a different version of X or something like that (can't recall now as this was some time ago... Google "intel gm965" hardy). Karmic broke sound--every few minutes my music would permanently transform into loud static. Solution: hotkey `killall pulseaudio` to F12. Lucid seems fairly stable so far. I'm crossing my fingers for Maverick. But all of these problems are on the same laptop with the same hardware! (Except for the wifi card).

Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#105
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, of course. sudo apt-get update sudo apt-get dist-upgrade

That's an unsupported upgrade method. Please issue "update-manager -d" in a desktop install, or "do-release-upgrade -d" on a server or other command line environment.

I guess this is a tiny point, but is there really no supported way to update from the command line?

Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#106
post #81
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Shuttleworth & co seem more interested in tweaking visual desktop stuff (window buttons, windicators, indicator applet, etc.) than actually making sure their software is as bug-free as possible. Every time I upgrade to the newest release (literally every single upgrade since Hardy, when I started using Ubuntu) a bunch of stuff that used to work breaks. Lucid hasn't been as bad as others (Jaunty and Karmic I'm…

They seem to be doing pretty well focusing on what they've been focusing on - end user experience. They didn't go from nothing to #1 for no reason, you know. Calling it a cargo-cult dictatorship is a bit unfair as well - he's footing the bill for a huge chunk of the work, why shouldn't he get a say? Nothing's stopping you from ponying up and starting your own distro dev team; you can even fork from Ubuntu and just fi…

I call it cargo-cult because Shuttleworth makes UI decisions like "move the window buttons" to semi-emulate OSX, but seemingly without doing any research as to why such might succeed or fail. Originally they were even in a different order--his only concession to angry end-users was to arrange them like OSX, in a different order than originally envisioned. Or take the indicator applet: his complaint was that the regular system tray icons are cluttered and disorganized. Solution: reinvent the system tray (which had fairly clear HIG defined by Gnome, which for the most part were followed), almost bit for bit, but with different colored icons, no tooltips, and no default left-click action. If you look at the old system tray and the new indicator applet, they quite literally are almost identical in appearance/clutterdness (yes, he merged mail and IM, and with Maverick merged volume and the music player, so that's two less icons, but the usefulness of those changes is up for debate).

I call it a dictatorship because big decisions like that are made by him, seemingly by fiat. He even calls himself SABDFL (self-appointed benevolent dictator for life).

Shuttleworth is trying to be the Jobs of the OSS world--making design decisions because he thinks he knows software design best. Which is fine--like you said, he's paying for it all. But the difference between him and Jobs is that Jobs defines useable software where Shuttleworth just copies and reinvents. And in my opinion, Shuttleworth doesn't seem to have the insight into users' thought processes that Jobs has.

Again, you're right, the man is paying for it all, so who am I to complain? I can just pick a different distro. But the problem is that with all of these more serious stability problems remaining unsolved and stuff like windicators and indicator applets and fonts getting all the attention, I and others might eventually get fed up and switch to a more stable distro (does one exist? Will I go back to Windows?), or not recommend Ubuntu to friends.

What should I tell my friend: Yeah, install Ubuntu, it's great, but whatever you do, don't let it automatically update because your laptop might never suspend correctly after that?

Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#107
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. I have a one year old Dell Inspiron 1525 with Ubuntu. Not the best laptop ever but at least since Ubuntu 9.10 ... 3D graphics worked out of the box (open-source, Intel), Wifi worked out of the box (not so on OpenSuse or Debian), the built-in webcam worked out of the box, practically everything is up and running as soon as you install Ubuntu, no extra configuration required. Not only that, but I also…

Apparently some people have laptops that worked great with earlier Ubuntu releases but don't work after an upgrade. That's scary to me -- I could do careful research and buy a laptop now, only to have an upgrade make my laptop unusable. Then at the very best I'd have to downgrade and be stuck on an earlier version of Ubuntu while they classify it as a medium-priority bug and leave it broken in subsequent releases. P.…

For what it's worth, I've had numerous Thinkpads (T23, T42, currently typing this on a T61) and suspend/resume always worked for me.

Not always right out of the box -- I had to research workarounds for video-related problems a few years ago.

Not always without problems -- on two occasions a wifi driver bug prevented the suspend from going through and my laptop spent a few hot hours in the backpack. (The Thinkpad survived that splendidly with no problems.)

Things are getting better all the time. Not monotonically -- there are regressions every now and then -- but in general more and more things work for more and more people.

Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#108
post #94
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently some people have laptops that worked great with earlier Ubuntu releases but don't work after an upgrade. That's scary to me -- I could do careful research and buy a laptop now, only to have an upgrade make my laptop unusable. Then at the very best I'd have to downgrade and be stuck on an earlier version of Ubuntu while they classify it as a medium-priority bug and leave it broken in subsequent releases. P.…

I've had similar issues with Ubuntu upgrades in the past. I went to Debian (stable) instead, figuring the longer upgrade cycles would mean fewer problems. That was all well and good until I needed to enable backports to upgrade Firefox to >=3.5 for work. Now the package manager's broken due to some weird dependency issues. I don't understand why there is no free software equivalent of Apple, selling (laptop) hardware…

I think an LTS version of Ubuntu would be better than Debian, if you want longer upgrade cycles.

ZaReason and System76 are two vendors that sell laptops with Ubuntu. I don't know if they actively support Ubuntu upgrades for their hardware (in the sense of testing/fixing bugs).

Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#109
post #75
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fwiw, all these laptop issues (especially this suspend/resume bug after I upgraded to Hardy) were what convinced me to get a mac. The only people I know with problem-free linux systems are desktop users.

I'm trying to make that call at the moment. I've been using Ubuntu on laptops since 5.10 (Badger) and Debian before that. 10.10 has by far the most regressions in it that I've encountered during this time. If this were my project, I wouldn't be releasing it in this state. I know it's the 10/10 release and presumably 10/10/10 they will hit -- 42 and all that -- but they really need to get some stability into this thin…

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Re: Ubuntu 10.10 (Maverick Meerkat) Release Candidate

#110
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is FreeType intrinsically better than the Windows font renderer? Microsoft has the advantage of subpixel font rendering (aka ClearType) although admittedly that because it's patented ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering#Patents ).

Because FreeType does it too, in fact FreeType employs every single trick there is: bytecode interpreter, hinting, subpixel rendering, etc. But it has an advantage of being configurable i.e. it doesn't follow "all size fits all" path. Slight hinting + subpixel smoothing with enabled bytecode interpretation yields incredible output on high-DPI screens. However, IIRC there's a Microsoft-made utility that allows you to…

It has the cost of being highly configurable. I could make the same font (Verdana) look much better on Linux than on Windows, by fiddling with dpi/hinting/subpixel rendering settings. And I could make it look worse. It was much easier to make it look worse. I had to spend a lot of time fiddling with the settings until I hit the jackpot.
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