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E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

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Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#101

Post by arkades »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #97
flyingcircus3 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, in fact, conflated the original question with a essentialized, worst case scenario that shoehorns a multivariate determination into a binary proposition. There are, after all, other methods of smoking secession beyond nicotene alternatives. In fact, there are some methods of quitting an addictive substance that work by actually stopping the ingestion of the addictive substance in the first place. Nicotene altern…

You misunderstand what is really bad about cigarettes. It isn’t the nicotine, but the tar (the burning of it). Heck, nicotine gum has long been used as a safe smoking cessation aide. Not to mention it is present in many new works vegetables. Getting rid of the burning tar is a HUGE win for smokers, healthwise.

(1) nicotine gum is used as a weaning assist, not an ongoing alternative

(2) you chose to overlook his point that vapes are also an on-ramp to smoking, not just an off-ramp.

(3) people really oversell the whole “vape isn’t combustion” bs. Both the solvent and the flavors form toxic aldehydes when vaped, and their long term safety has not been assessed.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#102

Post by throwaway5752 »

Alex3917 wrote: post #94
hazz99 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is nicotine bad for you? I thought it was just what made cigarettes addictive, and all the other stuff is what made them unhealthy. Happy to be proved wrong -- I'll let some eCig friends know ;)

The main problem with nicotine is that it increases your risk for heart disease. It’s also somewhat carcinogenic.

It's also extraordinarily addictive. That's an ethical problem in and of itself.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#103

Post by flyingcircus3 »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #97
flyingcircus3 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, in fact, conflated the original question with a essentialized, worst case scenario that shoehorns a multivariate determination into a binary proposition. There are, after all, other methods of smoking secession beyond nicotene alternatives. In fact, there are some methods of quitting an addictive substance that work by actually stopping the ingestion of the addictive substance in the first place. Nicotene altern…

You misunderstand what is really bad about cigarettes. It isn’t the nicotine, but the tar (the burning of it). Heck, nicotine gum has long been used as a safe smoking cessation aide. Not to mention it is present in many new works vegetables. Getting rid of the burning tar is a HUGE win for smokers, healthwise.

I, in fact, possess no such misunderstanding. I can certainly appreciate that holding the tar up as the boogieman, to give coverfire to nicotene, makes good marketing material for up and coming businesses looking to disrupt established tobacco companies. However, there is a faulty assumption in your copy. And that's to defang addiction as a problem, and to anchor all of the negative effects of smoking to the respiratory system.

Of course tar is bad for lungs. It turns out that products such as tobacco can have multiple health hazards. I do not besmirch people for improving the health of others. I simply detest marketing that acts as if addiction is something to strive for.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#104

Post by lotsofpulp »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #97
flyingcircus3 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You, in fact, conflated the original question with a essentialized, worst case scenario that shoehorns a multivariate determination into a binary proposition. There are, after all, other methods of smoking secession beyond nicotene alternatives. In fact, there are some methods of quitting an addictive substance that work by actually stopping the ingestion of the addictive substance in the first place. Nicotene altern…

You misunderstand what is really bad about cigarettes. It isn’t the nicotine, but the tar (the burning of it). Heck, nicotine gum has long been used as a safe smoking cessation aide. Not to mention it is present in many new works vegetables. Getting rid of the burning tar is a HUGE win for smokers, healthwise.

The really bad thing about cigarettes is that it harms other people. If people want to exchange a little bit of their future for some pleasure now, then I don't think that's so bad. Some do it with alcohol, some do it with adrenaline rushing activities, some with sugary desserts, or unhealthy sitting and lounging around habits, etc. Everyone's just trying to get that hit of dopamine or whatever in their brain. But just do it without causing inconvenience to others, as much as possible.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#105

Post by bruthafez »

908087 wrote: post #93
ergh wrote: post #40

You should be aware that many people stereotype vapers as being less intelligent, more impulsive, and generally trashier than non-vapers, similar to how those with tattoos, ear gauges, or other noticeable body modifications are stereotyped. In other words, unless you're already a smoker, vaping is a habit you should avoid taking up, because it can have negative social and economic consequences for you. And stereotype…

If you're not just trolling, you should be aware that many of us who choose to have tattoos or vape would consider it a positive if those choices kept people with beliefs like your own far away from us.

This is an incredibly shaky argument. The Halo Effect is real, and those who vape or have tattoos don't benefit from it.

Is the benefit of driving away people who understand the Halo Effect greater than the detriment of not being able to capitalize on the Halo Effect oneself? Incredibly doubtful IMO.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#106

Post by colecut »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #63
lstodd wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume they wouldn't have started smoking in absence of vape?

Higher amounts of them are starting to vape than the rates of smoking would predict.

I'll just throw in that I am one of those people who didn't smoke cigarettes but have attempted vaping multiple times. Cigarettes are gross, they stink.

I've always stopped vaping after not too long due to issues with the ejuice tanks or just not feeling like doing it anymore.. but I actually picked up juul a couple days ago because I do enjoy that occasional 'nicotine rush', so trying this again =p

I may be an idiot, but I'm also a stat. =)

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#107

Post by singingfish »

tigershark wrote: post #59
singingfish wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not able to accept this without decent evidence. There's some pretty clear psychopharmacology related to burning tobacco that is absent for ecigs. Specifically one of the byproducts of burning tobacco is a compound related to early anti-depressants - a mono amine oxidase inhibitor. The effect of this compound seems to be to potentiate the addictiveness of nicotine. That is move its addictiveness from O(n) similar…

How many years of cigarettes smoking and vaping did you have? From what you write it seems to me that either you never smoked for years both of them or now you started vaping and you want to believe in what you write. Sadly the things that you write are extremely dangerous for all the young people that start vaping.

I was never able to give up smoking long term until the vapes turned up. Then a persistent decades long problem disappeared overnight. Funnily enough my tobacco habit got entrenched when I was in a job that allowed me to deal with it’s boring aspects by voraciously reading lots of psychopharmacology literature.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#108

Post by awakeasleep »

wtvanhest wrote: post #92
awakeasleep wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tobacco kills 7 MILLION PEOPLE A YEAR You confused your personal morality, which seems more based on "would this rule benefit everyone applied universally" with the question you were asked, which is of the "does this provide the greatest good to the greatest amount of people" variety. It's _possible_ that in the end, ecigs are not a net positive for humanity. But that is a belief without firm proof. They could be twi…

I made my own assumptions and came to the conclusion that this was net negative not net positive. I guess we will find out in 30 years.

Well I am interested in what other features you considered in your analysis (not to disputed them, just curious about what elements spoke to you).

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#109

Post by TimTheTinker »

ShabbosGoy wrote: post #99
TimTheTinker wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a great article, and rather eye-opening. Juul may help cigarette smokers get away from tobacco, but wow — stories about teens and young adults taking Juul hits every 10-15 minutes are something else. That’s just plain addiction, taking them far beyond the threshold of diminishing returns, even for caffeine-like self-medication. There’s definitely a lot of money in creating addictions... this can’t be a long-te…

To be honest, nicotine has cognitive enhancing effects. Nicotine alone does not have detrimental effects (aside from vasoconstriction, but it’s a stimulant); the main risk comes from the unknown effects of long term exposure to inhaled chemicals like propelyne glycol/vegetable glycerin. These chemicals are approved as food additives, though.

> Nicotine alone does not have detrimental effects

I think it’s normal to consider dependency and major withdrawals when stopping as pretty detrimental effects, whether or not any other symptoms are involved.

Not that everyone is bothered by that, but folks needing to vape every 10 minutes have a severely lowered quality of life (or the risk of having one), in my opinion — if only because their habit gets in the way of other things, or perhaps they forget their pod pack and have an incredibly bad day. I think that could be a whole lot worse than not having one’s morning cup of coffee.

Re: E-Cigarette Maker Juul Labs Is Raising $1.2B

#110

Post by ergh »

908087 wrote: post #93
ergh wrote: post #40

You should be aware that many people stereotype vapers as being less intelligent, more impulsive, and generally trashier than non-vapers, similar to how those with tattoos, ear gauges, or other noticeable body modifications are stereotyped. In other words, unless you're already a smoker, vaping is a habit you should avoid taking up, because it can have negative social and economic consequences for you. And stereotype…

If you're not just trolling, you should be aware that many of us who choose to have tattoos or vape would consider it a positive if those choices kept people with beliefs like your own far away from us.

I had no idea there were so many tattoo-covered vapers on HN. Clearly, the userbase isn't what it was 10 years ago. I guess the low-IQ reddit Septemberists have completely taken over.
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