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Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

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Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#101

Post by manigandham »

derefr wrote: post #13
phnofive wrote: post #4

Who is Apple engaging in design anorexia for? Does it drive sales? Couldn’t some other stat be used to pad their presentations? Any thickness less than an inch is fine with me. I’m not concerned with whether my laptop fits in an envelope.

I don't know why so many people are under the impression that they do thinness for thinness sake. They do thinness for lightness sake. The lighter your laptop (or tablet, or phone), the more you'll choose to not leave it behind but rather to just lug it around with you, and so the more places you'll have it and the more it'll be there to aid your productivity in random situations. [Also, for phones and tablets specif…

They're both similar metrics, and both just vanity now.

There are lower bounds of acceptability and luxury that were hit years ago, with much more important things to work on now like battery life and connectivity. Nobody cares about shaving another few millimeters or grams off the design if it means a frustrating experience overall.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#102

Post by state_less »

alanfalcon wrote: post #83
apocalypstyx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally suspect one day they'll marry the touch bar and the taptic engine to make a keyboard surface. That way they could have emoji keyboards and such. And they would only have to manufacture one top case, no matter what country they were shipped to.

Maybe if it worked with the Apple Pencil and the taptic feedback was good enough I could see being curious about it. It’d probably just be a good way to incite a riot though.

I’d probably try out a ultralight/thin “laptop”, akin to what is depicted in Westworld. Two touchscreens clamshelled together.

But yeah, I think they’d need to keep the door open with a traditional keyboard layout too.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#103

Post by _hardwaregeek »

manigandham wrote: post #79

Apple biggest UX failures always stem from putting form before function. There is a lower limit to thinness/lightness before consumers just don't care, and it was passed long ago. There was great progress made with the unibody Macbook Pros and the Macbook Airs but these latest models are so thin that it's actually annoying and leads to issues like poor battery life, lack of repair-ability, and malfunctioning keyboard…

On one hand I'm inclined to agree with you. Thin is not always better. On the other hand I'm holding my 3 pound Macbook Pro comfortably and easily. It's light enough that I don't have to think about slipping it into my day bag (something I did think about with the previous iteration) and thin enough to easily grip with one hand and walk around. When I was traveling, there wasn't even a question about whether I would bring my laptop. It's just too easy not to bring.

Sure, there's a bunch of flaws in the design and I hate that they removed the SD card reader, but it's probably the closest I've seen to the platonic ideal of a laptop. Something that you can always carry on you, that you can pop open in short notice and quickly slip back into your bag when no longer needed.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#104

Post by wutbrodo »

ngngngng wrote: post #67
acomjean wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they'll gradually improve the keyboard. It won't be great but it will be good enough. like the "don't hold it that way" antenna gate problem and the phone bending problems.. They'll fix.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4#Antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_6#Chassis_bending Honestly, its hard to get off the mac ecosystem though. I have a macbook pro, and am starting to look at linux laptops. Th…

Only thing I'm considering is a thinkpad x1 carbon. But the last time I tried putting linux on a laptop I had a few issues submitted to the linux kernel and still didn't have the laptop working perfectly (Asus zenbook) within a week I returned it and bought a MacBook pro. Might be time for another go.

I believe Thinkpads are famously easy to make work with Linux. I had one in college (a decade ago) and an x1 carbon when I was at Google (several years ago) and both of them were excellent (though the latter obviously would've had any kinks ironed out by the Goobuntu team).

My last couple laptops had better hardware (for my needs) than ThinkPads or Macbooks, but the occasional compatibility issue is enough that I'm thinking about switching back to Thinkpads.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#105

Post by fein »

mushufasa wrote: post #68
acomjean wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they'll gradually improve the keyboard. It won't be great but it will be good enough. like the "don't hold it that way" antenna gate problem and the phone bending problems.. They'll fix.. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_4#Antenna https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPhone_6#Chassis_bending Honestly, its hard to get off the mac ecosystem though. I have a macbook pro, and am starting to look at linux laptops. Th…

System 76 (the small linux-only hardware manufacturer) just refreshed their Oryx Pro last month, which looks pretty capable and looks from afar to be really good build quality. https://system76.com/laptops/oryx I haven't found many/any reviews of it since the refresh -- does anyone on HN have one who can attest?

I think System76 is using Clevo/Sager chassis still. You can buy these setups from a place like xotic and load up linux yourself for a bit less than System76 stuff costs.

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#106

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cma wrote: post #93
phinnaeus wrote: post #3

Realistically, I just can't really see Apple fixing this by introducing a new keyboard design that's any thicker. As much as I would love to hear "We've heard your feedback on the keyboards and we've made some drastic changes to address them in our new Macbook Pro", it just doesn't seem like their style. What do others think they're going to do for their next release of laptops?

Maglev keyboard: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/1/9/16826146/ne...

Oh, that sounds very nice. Has anyone tried this yet?

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#108

Post by [deleted] »

mehrdadn wrote: post #99
sandmansandine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: Why didn't you mention the genders of the the people from "the "good old days"" but had to say over and over again that you were dealing with "Middle manager woman"

I'm confused what the point of this question is. Would you have found it more satisfying if the parent had said "I had a couple of [male] contacts from the good ol' days" ?

[deleted]

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#109

Post by not_kurt_godel »

mehrdadn wrote: post #99
sandmansandine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: Why didn't you mention the genders of the the people from "the "good old days"" but had to say over and over again that you were dealing with "Middle manager woman"

I'm confused what the point of this question is. Would you have found it more satisfying if the parent had said "I had a couple of [male] contacts from the good ol' days" ?

The subtext, whether it's intentional or not, seems to be that the gender of manager that he (yes, assuming OP's gender) spoke to is relevant to the negativity of the experience. The message can be condensed down to "female + new Apple = bad, male + old Apple = good"

Re: Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Keyboard

#110

Post by sorahn »

hsienmaneja wrote: post #16

Apple, please put back in full size up and down arrow keys

It’s not so much the half keys that makes it obnoxious, but having the left and right keys be full height, and not having a gap to orient my fingers in the keys means I’m often pressing “shift” with my middle finger thinking it’s “up”.
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