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New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

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Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#101

Post by justin66 »

frockington wrote: post #71
digitalzombie wrote: post #25

I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

> So why not free trade?

Every country involved has industries which won't allow this. For example, all the countries in the G8 have agricultural sectors which will not allow elimination of trade barriers.

So, even if you want "free trade," you start with each country's list of stuff where there is not going to be free trade, and move forward from there.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#102

Post by jfk13 »

gruez wrote: post #79
agumonkey wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This trick is only working randomly

really? never got hit with duties from imports that were under-declare, even in cases where the item in question was obviously worth more than $20 (eg. phones).

I take it that knowingly participating in fraud doesn't bother you at all?

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#103

Post by ska »

frockington wrote: post #71
digitalzombie wrote: post #25

I really hate the new tariff. There is no need to be going into a trade war against not only traditionally our rivals but also our allies now too. The economy is recovering and I believe it may now be heading toward a recession. Here's the quick data on job created in raw number without the quality of the job to show that it is recovering since the 2008 recession: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2…

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence.

For example US farm subsidies are significant and supply management is common in many areas, but the rhetoric around Canadian dairy supply management recently has been amplified far beyond even it's wildest possible impact. And this with a country with extraordinarily balanced trade, if anything probably a deficit. The history of trade between the two countries is littered with spats about US protecting this, Canada protecting that, but on the whole very balanced. Pretending otherwise may make for good politics (i guess that remains to be seen) but it isn't based on evidence or good policy work.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#104

Post by mchannon »

danieltillett wrote: post #55
megaman22 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your $25 steak dinner cost about $6 in foodstuffs. If a tariff raises the cost of that raw material to $8, it would be absurd for that entire meal to now cost $32. Much of the cost in restaurant prices is wages, and rent, and other overhead, not the actual food.

You are correct, but most restaurants just multiple the food cost by 4 to set the price. It is rather silly, but that is the way the industry works.

I don't think it's silly to come up with a pricing method that is simple and uniform to apply.

However, "4" can just as easily morph to "3" or "5" if the fundamental costs change industrywide.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#105

Post by samastur »

tomp wrote: post #60
Heliosmaster wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will bring jobs back if there are enough people who can afford the local made product. And I wouldn't be sure about it, since in the last few years we have witnessed a thinning of the middle class, and the lower parts of the population might not afford to pay a premium because it's locally made. It's hard to go back from a race to the bottom

> if there are enough people who can afford the local made product Eventually, it will keep more money in the country, meaning people will also be able to afford more (after all, they'll be being paid the higher, local wages now). Compare with e.g. Switzerland, where most people have really high salary (by EU standards), and pretty much everything is really expensive, but because of the high salaries people can affor…

This works only as long as people having these high salaries do work with high added value and you are not relying much on international trade. Otherwise they can be effectively undercut by people who can do the same thing cheaper.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#106

Post by frockington »

endorphone wrote: post #85
frockington wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

Do you think the US plays by free trade? Intellectual property rights/copyright laws, both linchpins of US policy, are the very definition of government intervention. The US aerospace and manufacturing industry is overwhelmingly subsidized by the military complex, a lot of it done under the auspices of "national security". For the US to complain about Airbus or Bombardier is simply incredible. US agriculture is outra…

I don't think the US plays fair either. I think everyone should play fair. Domestic subsidies I don't personally care about as it should be up to each country to deal with internally.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#107

Post by frockington »

justin66 wrote: post #101
frockington wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

> So why not free trade? Every country involved has industries which won't allow this. For example, all the countries in the G8 have agricultural sectors which will not allow elimination of trade barriers. So, even if you want "free trade," you start with each country's list of stuff where there is not going to be free trade, and move forward from there.

I agree its not going to happen. I like your idea of a starting point though

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#108

Post by tomp »

samastur wrote: post #105
tomp wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if there are enough people who can afford the local made product Eventually, it will keep more money in the country, meaning people will also be able to afford more (after all, they'll be being paid the higher, local wages now). Compare with e.g. Switzerland, where most people have really high salary (by EU standards), and pretty much everything is really expensive, but because of the high salaries people can affor…

This works only as long as people having these high salaries do work with high added value and you are not relying much on international trade. Otherwise they can be effectively undercut by people who can do the same thing cheaper.

hence tariffs.

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#109

Post by frockington »

ska wrote: post #103
frockington wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why not free trade? I hate the idea of tariffs, but when your "allies" have had non reciprocal tariffs something needs to be done. I think all of this would go away if all tariffs against US products were removed

So you believe that the US is a victim of protectionism in these countries without having protectionism of it's own? That's a pretty hard position to back with evidence. For example US farm subsidies are significant and supply management is common in many areas, but the rhetoric around Canadian dairy supply management recently has been amplified far beyond even it's wildest possible impact. And this with a country wi…

I believe nobody should have tariffs. Understanding that is never going to happen, it should at least be a starting ppoint

Re: New US Tariffs are Anti-Maker and Will Encourage Offshoring

#110

Post by onion2k »

mchannon wrote: post #98
onion2k wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the cost of food doubles, your cost of a meal out doesn't double, but merely increases by a lesser amount. If the manufacturer can't make a profit at the tariff-burdened price, they just don't make the food in the first place. So you go hungry.

Or they raise the price. Then they just don't sell as much, leaving you to either consume less food or buy cheaper substitutes (retaliatory pork tariffs should mean cheaper bacon back home, shouldn't they?). Asked no serious manufacturer ever: "Gee, should I use this minor setback as an excuse to shut my entire operation down or slightly adjust my prices?" New suppliers may spring up, or existing suppliers may change…

We're talking about food. You can't just put up a farm and start producing a few weeks later. Depending on the crop it can take years before a farm is productive. So no, new suppliers don't just 'spring up'. This sort of economic activity can lead to food shortages.
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