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150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

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Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#101

Post by throwaway12122 »

abc_lisper wrote: post #99
throwaway12122 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They must be partial to Infosys. I mean, what did it do. https://www.myvisajobs.com/Reports/2017-H1B-Visa-Sponsor.asp... . I am not quite sure if LCA is an accurate metric of visa count. For example, I had my visa renewed 3 times so far. Every time, they filed for an LCA. I had to relocate one time. For that also, an LCA was filed. Then another one for my green card PERM or I-140 stage. People who come from India an…

> I am not quite sure if LCA is an accurate metric of visa count. For example, I had my visa renewed 3 times so far. Every time, they filed for an LCA You can ignore the GC LCA, because most companies do it too, and companies like Google, Facebook and Apple at a higher rate. Even if Infosys applies twice per three years for a candidate's H-1, it stands at the top of that list. > 100 thousand Indian students come to U…

>What is the point here? So does every other company.

What I was trying to point out is that when people talk about Infosys, they are referring to the people who are deputed from India. Or at least thats what I thought. So, when some one says 25405 people got LCA, a person who is not familiar with these things would think that Infosys brings that many people from India every year, and that Infosys is using up 25405 of the 60k or 80k visas to bring new people. They may not realize that this number also includes visa renewals, relocations, and hires from US, and that renewals and relocations do not count towards the 60k limit. If the Nasscom quote below is to be believed, its around 4000.

>IT industry body Nasscom on Monday came out in defence of its members TCS and Infosys, saying the two accounted for only 7,504—8.8%—of the approved H1B visas in 2014-15.

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Industry/tcs-infosys-accoun...

>Both said there teams were trying to hire people locally (Americans) >It is a legal requirement.

I was trying to say that just like how you are saying people in Infosys are bad, the Infosys people who work in interviewing Americans are saying the candidates they get are not as good as the Indians! Everyone thinks others are stupid I guess.

>as I had some personal experience in that regard.

I thought you were an American!

> I can also tell you this, this uncertainty will pass.

Thank you. I hope so too.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#102

Post by scarejunba »

merpnderp wrote: post #64
scarejunba wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Weird and here I thought a path to citizenship had broad Republican support, they just want it tied to stronger checks on who enters. But keep winning votes and changing minds by calling your opposition racists and bigots. That will win your votes.

"stronger checks" is an escape valve to stick practically anything in there. Give me a break haha.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#103

Post by pfarnsworth »

rohit2412 wrote: post #55
fjsolwmv wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probability doesn't really work that way. There are complex factors that go into the calculation, for any set of policies. Every policy discriminates somehow, except completely unrestricted system.

I think it's fair to discriminate on skills than geographical area of birth. We call the first merit, and the second some ism. Also, if we discriminate on merit, then racism is also fine? Maybe we should only discriminate on an individual level and with the attributes that individual has under his control.

Of course you think that it's fair to discriminate based on skills, because it benefits you. That's not how the rules are though. If Green Cards were based on the queue length, then Indians would starve out every other country, and that's not how the US has decided to approach immigration. There is a set limit based on country. Just because 1 country has more applicants doesn't mean there's discrimination. Having a set limit per country ensures that everyone globally gets a fairer shot, just because you're not getting what you want doesn't mean there's discrimination. Letting you in would be discriminating against someone else in another country.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#104

Post by username90 »

fzeroracer wrote: post #77
coldtea wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was making an inherently disingenuous claim that anyone arguing for immigration reform is called a racist. He was making a claim based on his experience with people asking for the kind of reform he'd like to see (e.g. stricter rules). In casual conversation absolute statements ("anyone") are not to be taken at face value, but (through the principle of charity) as the person meaning "in many -or most- cases". > W…

To use your own argument, I was also making a claim from experience that in general, whenever I see someone making that argument they tend to be racist or at least ignorant as to the history of the United States. And in most scenarios when I've had to argue against isolationists they tend to ignore issues such as Americans refusing to work in certain labor sectors that illegal immigrants tend to work (and be abused w…

> they tend to ignore issues such as Americans refusing to work in certain labor sectors that illegal immigrants tend to work (and be abused without employers being punished, see: farm work)

That argument is akin to the argument that we need slaves. Illegal immigrants are second class citizens, they don't enjoy nearly as many rights that legal immigrants does. They can be paid less than minimum wage, be worked harder than legally allowed etc. Of course the low skill sector loves having them, who wouldn't want to hire slaves who can't fight back when you abuse them?

But I argue that California have no need for slaves. If a job can't be filled with legal workers then you raise the wages and conditions. If you can't afford that then the job obviously wasn't critical to our economy and we should let it disappear.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#105

Post by fzeroracer »

username90 wrote: post #104
fzeroracer wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To use your own argument, I was also making a claim from experience that in general, whenever I see someone making that argument they tend to be racist or at least ignorant as to the history of the United States. And in most scenarios when I've had to argue against isolationists they tend to ignore issues such as Americans refusing to work in certain labor sectors that illegal immigrants tend to work (and be abused w…

> they tend to ignore issues such as Americans refusing to work in certain labor sectors that illegal immigrants tend to work (and be abused without employers being punished, see: farm work) That argument is akin to the argument that we need slaves. Illegal immigrants are second class citizens, they don't enjoy nearly as many rights that legal immigrants does. They can be paid less than minimum wage, be worked harder…

I don't disagree. Illegal immigrants in the US are treated horribly, paid poorly and pay taxes for benefits they don't even receive.

However, there are a lot of industries in the US propped up by the low cost of illegal immigrants and often abused by (ironically) Republicans. We can't actually fix those jobs because the margins are too thin to survive without that source of extremely cheap labor. We've created a dependence on what is effectively slave labor, and those jobs are generally critical to our country especially as we move more towards isolationism.

These are all important issues to consider when thinking about real immigration reform.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#106

Post by coldtea »

fzeroracer wrote: post #77
coldtea wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He was making an inherently disingenuous claim that anyone arguing for immigration reform is called a racist. He was making a claim based on his experience with people asking for the kind of reform he'd like to see (e.g. stricter rules). In casual conversation absolute statements ("anyone") are not to be taken at face value, but (through the principle of charity) as the person meaning "in many -or most- cases". > W…

To use your own argument, I was also making a claim from experience that in general, whenever I see someone making that argument they tend to be racist or at least ignorant as to the history of the United States. And in most scenarios when I've had to argue against isolationists they tend to ignore issues such as Americans refusing to work in certain labor sectors that illegal immigrants tend to work (and be abused w…

>And in most scenarios when I've had to argue against isolationists they tend to ignore issues such as Americans refusing to work in certain labor sectors that illegal immigrants tend to work

Well, that's a question of payment. Raise the salaries, and Americans will flock to those sectors. Instead of artificially keeping the margins up and the salaries low through labor import (which would end to the lowest common denominator race to the bottom among world economies, but usually it stops midway just lowering the options for the higher economies).

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#107

Post by coldtea »

ajross wrote: post #81
coldtea wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You kind of already made the parent's point for them. You didn't call it out explicitly, but you're already implying they are racist. > Second: not even relevant to the issue at hand. There is, to first approximation, exactly zero undocumented immigration among "Indian immigrants with advanced degrees" so I'm having a very, very hard time imaging how this is an "enormous penalty" we have to pay for failing to solve t…

> The "issue at hand" the parent discussed is immigration in general No. djrogers above literally said that "This is one of the enormous penalties we as a nation have to pay because neither of our political parties actually wants to solve the illegal immigration issue." So unless you want to play games with finding an alternative antecedent for "this", you are going to have to retract that. What the grandparent poste…

>No. djrogers above literally said that "This is one of the enormous penalties we as a nation have to pay because neither of our political parties actually wants to solve the illegal immigration issue." So unless you want to play games with finding an alternative antecedent for "this", you are going to have to retract that.

The parent's "This" indeed refers to the "150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants Wit..." in TFA.

But as the parent explicitly mentions, "this" (the indian immigrants issue" is "ONE OF" the penalties that the US pays.

He then proceeds and explicitly mentions the larger issue they discuss, which is "the illegal immigration issue".

It's not really hard to parse the obvious fact that the parent expands the scope to the overall issue:

"THIS (the Indian wait issue in TFA) is ONE OF the enormous penalties we as a nation have to pay because neither of our political parties actually wants to solve THE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION ISSUE".

Obviously he speaks of the "illegal immigration issue" at large.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#108

Post by ajross »

coldtea wrote: post #107
ajross wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The "issue at hand" the parent discussed is immigration in general No. djrogers above literally said that "This is one of the enormous penalties we as a nation have to pay because neither of our political parties actually wants to solve the illegal immigration issue." So unless you want to play games with finding an alternative antecedent for "this", you are going to have to retract that. What the grandparent poste…

> No. djrogers above literally said that "This is one of the enormous penalties we as a nation have to pay because neither of our political parties actually wants to solve the illegal immigration issue." So unless you want to play games with finding an alternative antecedent for "this", you are going to have to retract that. The parent's "This" indeed refers to the "150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants Wit.…

OMG, you're actually playing the antecedent game.

All in service to this ridiculous strawman you've set up because you're convinced I'm all primed to call you a racist. About a position you don't even admit you hold.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#109

Post by rohit2412 »

pfarnsworth wrote: post #103
rohit2412 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's fair to discriminate on skills than geographical area of birth. We call the first merit, and the second some ism. Also, if we discriminate on merit, then racism is also fine? Maybe we should only discriminate on an individual level and with the attributes that individual has under his control.

Of course you think that it's fair to discriminate based on skills, because it benefits you. That's not how the rules are though. If Green Cards were based on the queue length, then Indians would starve out every other country, and that's not how the US has decided to approach immigration. There is a set limit based on country. Just because 1 country has more applicants doesn't mean there's discrimination. Having a s…

> That's not how the rules are though

We are just arguing why the rules are the way they are.

> There is a set limit based on country. Just because 1 country has more applicants doesn't mean there's discrimination

If you have different outcomes for individuals based on what country they were born in, that is discrimination. Not sure what stupid definition of discrimination you have in mind.

> Having a set limit per country ensures that everyone globally gets a fairer shot

Not everyone, but every country. And that does not mean every race, or every ethnicity. So much for forced "diversity". You have no idea how diverse India is, with thousands of languages and hundreds of ethnic groups. It is the origin of four major world religions, and has been always been an accepting land. But you SJW can go through your forced diversity with your discriminatory policies, with complete lack of logical thought.

Re: 150-Year Green Card Wait for Indian Immigrants With Advanced Degrees

#110

Post by rohit2412 »

cfadvan wrote: post #86
rohit2412 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't give everyone an equal shot. For some reason, you think a billion Indians deserve the same opportunity as 10,000 Tuvalu residents.

I’m Irish and live in Dublin, so there is no “me” in this scenario. I’m just stating how the system works, which as far as I know would easily absorb everyone from Tuvalu, because yes, there aren’t many of them. It’s not Tuvalu’s fault that they can’t exceed the limit on their own, it’s just life. In addition to the numerical limits placed upon the various immigration preferences, the INA also places a limit on how m…

India is as diverse as Africa and Europe. I find this classification of Indian people as the same as wrong. I demand there be a similar 7% cap for Africa and Europe too.

After all, EU is a combined political and economic entity, makign it a federation, just like India.

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