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Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

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Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#101

Post by albinary10 »

stoic_beard wrote: post #73
albinary10 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the 2002 Census, 46.5% of the children aged 0–4 were Muslim. Macedonians will be minority very soon. It might come a time when this country will be called Eastern Albania. Given the extreme nationalism of the Macedonians I do not think this country will resist history very long in this configuration. And if they do not accept the Albanians and do not live in peace with them they will be soon a tiny joke…

By your bias and derogatory comment, it is evident that you lack a very basic understanding of the weight and proud nature Macedonians and Albanians feel as people, as neighbors, and as individuals. Having grown up with Macedonian-Albanian friends, to this day, we both have respect for each others traditions. The common people living in Macedonia, regardless of their ethnic background, want one thing, and that is: pe…

Your analogy sucks. But I am not here to increase your intellectual capabilities. And I do not think that is possible.

The Albanians are native in that region whereas you are the newcomers. So, if you think a little bit more (which I highly doubt you can) you will understand why your analogy is just nonsense.

The Albanians are Albanians and they will remain Albanians. They are of course citizens of Macedonia, a joke sate which does not even have an acceptable name, but they are Albanians.

You want examples? Boban Ilic killed a 4-year old Albanian. I am not talking about other incidents, but killing with your car a 4-year old is just an act of a coward criminal/animal. And most of the Macedonians/Bulgarians supported him. Moreover, he is free to go.

https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detail/video/people-protest-th...

Anyway, as I said, you are a joke state, and very soon you will be a minority in that joke state.

Let me see then if you can kill 4 years old child.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#102

Post by tom_mellior »

salex89 wrote: post #58
stoic_beard wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Around a quarter of the population is Albanian" - is this also your educated guess, or something you "read" online? The FACT is that the last Census was done in 2002. According to conservative estimates pulled from the Health Ministry, there are less than 20% of Albanians currently residing on the territory of Macedonia. And a little free lesson in history for you: The Slavs you are referring to, in the 6th century…

Not sure where did you pull out that number, I've downloaded the report from the Macedonian Statistics Office and double-checked what I googled out. I'm pretty much aware of that history lesson, thanks. How does that change what I wrote initially?

Not taking sides here, I just find it funny that both of you claim to be using official online sources, but both of you conveniently forgot to provide a link.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#103

Post by salex89 »

tom_mellior wrote: post #102
salex89 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure where did you pull out that number, I've downloaded the report from the Macedonian Statistics Office and double-checked what I googled out. I'm pretty much aware of that history lesson, thanks. How does that change what I wrote initially?

Not taking sides here, I just find it funny that both of you claim to be using official online sources, but both of you conveniently forgot to provide a link.

I completely agree. Here is the link. It is a mix of Macedonian and English, page of interest is 34. Total population: 2022547. Albanians: 509083. Pretty clear, around 25.17%.

http://www.stat.gov.mk/Publikacii/knigaXIII.pdf

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#104

Post by oliwarner »

chadash wrote: post #6

This is pay-walled, but here's a summary: The country we now call "Macedonia" (i.e. The Republic of Macedonia) was formed in 1991 after Yugoslavia broke up. Greece didn't like the name, because "Macedonia" was already the name of a large region in Northern Greece. This would be similar to a region of Quebec bordering the US breaking away from Canada and calling itself Maine. Some Greeks apparently felt that the Repub…

I don't think your example does the region justice. A short tussle over some border land isn't what happened here.

The region of "Macedonia" has been fought over for millennia and more recently carved up into Yugoslavia, Greece and Bulgaria by the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest and then re-initialised in 1991 when Yugoslavia dissolved with Greece and Bulgaria still holding land acquired in 1913.

The Republic of Macedonia really had no more claim to the name than Greece and they've both been being dicks about the whole thing for the last century. But that's Balkan politics. Pain, strife and abject suffering over stupid shit that shouldn't be a problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedonia_(region)

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#105

Post by Keyframe »

conmarap wrote: post #86
Keyframe wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the greatest analogy, considering both the greek region and the republic were both part of ancient kingdom of Macedonia, and neither modern instance has (much of) any continuity link to ancient Macedonia. I was there last year. It's a great country to visit as a tourist. There are much political issues still at large there. With Greece, there's that dispute over who has 'the right' to Macedonia. IMO, neither. The…

Greece didn't exist as a united country, but for Alexander the Great, who spent his school years in Athens, and tried to unite all Greek states into one Hellenic country, yes, the history belongs to the Greeks and not a Slavic tribe that found itself in the region 900 years later. Not to mention that they were given a written language by the Greeks of the Byzantine empire.

What I'm saying is that I'm not convinced modern greeks are the same as those 2500 years ago. Lots of things happened, people moved, shuffled, ottoman empire was there for 500+ years, etc. In same way, I'm not convinced Macedonia vas vacated, completely void of people, and settled by slavs ezclusively.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#106

Post by toasterlovin »

ap3 wrote: post #81
abnry wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the USA is the only country with America in it's name. And what would you call people who live in the United States other than Americans? Hop, skip and a jump to calling the place Americans live America.

Estadounidenses

What about for people who speak English?

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#107

Post by toasterlovin »

TheForumTroll wrote: post #74
abnry wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the USA is the only country with America in it's name. And what would you call people who live in the United States other than Americans? Hop, skip and a jump to calling the place Americans live America.

I see more and more write USAnians. All from people that dislikes everything US but I like it!

How do you say that out loud?

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#108

Post by toasterlovin »

Keyframe wrote: post #105
conmarap wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greece didn't exist as a united country, but for Alexander the Great, who spent his school years in Athens, and tried to unite all Greek states into one Hellenic country, yes, the history belongs to the Greeks and not a Slavic tribe that found itself in the region 900 years later. Not to mention that they were given a written language by the Greeks of the Byzantine empire.

What I'm saying is that I'm not convinced modern greeks are the same as those 2500 years ago. Lots of things happened, people moved, shuffled, ottoman empire was there for 500+ years, etc. In same way, I'm not convinced Macedonia vas vacated, completely void of people, and settled by slavs ezclusively.

I don’t know about Greece specifically, but the modern population of Italy are descendants of Italians from Roman times. There has been no population turnover to speak of. I would expect the situation in Greece to be similar; I’m not aware of any historical instances of wholesale genocide and migration there...

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#109

Post by liveoneggs »

russellbeattie wrote: post #90
dgut wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's irrelevant what Washington or anybody else said. The common name for the North and South American landmasses is America (note: not Americas). The land between Canada and Mexico has no more rights to that name than the rest of the continent (or continents, depending on what model you prefer). Abroad, Hollywood has popularized the use of "American" to refer to citizens of the USA. Also, most languages don't have a…

The quote isn't irrelevant to the comment I was responding to, it was an example of its usage hundreds of years ago, loooong before Hollywood. Like I said above, it's a historical artifact, not some brazen attempt at linguistic hegemony. (Sorry, but the Americas is what the continents are called normally - in English at least - did you just make up a new rule? There's even a Wikipedia entry: https://en.m.wikipedia.or…

George Washington is a made-up Hollywood figure. Humanity only started around 60 years ago and the rest is just made up movie plots and children's books.

Re: Macedonia Agrees to Change Its Name to End Bitter Dispute with Greece

#110

Post by miopa »

whatever1 wrote: post #3
mkempe wrote: post #2

Naming themselves "North Macedonia" kind of implies that they are strongly connected to the other three Macedonia (administrative) regions of Greece (Western, Central, Eastern). The reason they're not going to join Greece is that there are no ethnic Greeks there, so why not call themselves Slav Macedonia instead? [added after downvotes] what is wrong with asking why "North" is the chosen distinction? it seems that th…

Because their main goal is to differentiate as much as possible from Bulgaria.

No, Slav Macedonia was acceptable to us. But not to the Albanians, and we changed our constitution in 2001 to allow them to veto this kind of things (under strong US/NATO pressure).
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