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OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

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Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#101

Post by finchisko »

gnl wrote: post #76
drb91 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the obvious problems with OS X (macOS, whatever) are with the UX, though. Sure, there are problems on that front, but I don't think they're the major pain points people deal with on a daily basis. Meanwhile, user-controllable per-process (or per-app) sandboxing would provide tangible benefit to all of us. This means, easy controls for accessing filesystem, network, cpu, gpu, memory, peripherals, an…

Yup. While I do need to use a number of third-party tools to get the UX like I want it (Hammerspoon, Hyperswitch, Spectacle and Quicksilver), they do exist, they work fine and I think this has more to do with my specific requirements than with any fundamental issues or missing features in the UX. Going forward, advanced sandboxing is indeed one of the most important things that I would love to see Apple focus on. Eve…

macOS has sandbox based on TrustedBSD MAC framework. However official documentation is non existent and implementation looks like unfinished product, but I've tried it and it worked. Recommend you to read "Apple's Sandbox Guide" pdf. https://reverse.put.as/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Apple-Sand...

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#102

Post by tonyedgecombe »

qop wrote: post #75

That took a moment to parse, but what a neat observation. I've always admired apple from afar. I wish they cared More about lower rung use cases. If apple came out with something to compete with chromebooks, maybe $500-600 range, I'd be the first in those ridiculous lines. Tangent: what's the outlook for swift on the server? Is that work group doing any work lately? Hell I heard swift was investigating memory safety…

If apple came out with something to compete with chromebooks, maybe $500-600 range

I hope they don't, companies with declining margins look to make it up in other ways that aren't always in the customers interest.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#103

Post by pjmlp »

_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

> Despite all this, OSX still has a huge foothold as the developer platform of choice

In North America yes, in Europe it never really took off outside the first level countries.

I only touch Apple devices for iOS development, and they are shared as part of a company pool.

And I bet African, Asian and South American developers would share a similar opinion.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#104

Post by pjmlp »

pier25 wrote: post #58
drb91 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that the obvious problems with OS X (macOS, whatever) are with the UX, though. Sure, there are problems on that front, but I don't think they're the major pain points people deal with on a daily basis. Meanwhile, user-controllable per-process (or per-app) sandboxing would provide tangible benefit to all of us. This means, easy controls for accessing filesystem, network, cpu, gpu, memory, peripherals, an…

> If not, Google is coming down the road with Fuschia. I'm also hoping Fuchsia will save us.

While Fuchsia has some nice ideas, given its licensing expect the same update experience as Android.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#105

Post by pjmlp »

_bxg1 wrote: post #57
tannhaeuser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given the decline of the desktop software market, I'm not sure a radical redesign makes sense for Apple. Looking at Apple's lineup, what's driving sales seems to be the end user market, and it's not clear to me Apple wants to be in the Pro market anymore. In any case, the Pro market is about delivering workhorses for running (Adobe et al) software, so a radical redesign will probably result in Adobe et al stopping to…

Developers have to have an OS to work from, no matter how much end-user usage shifts to mobile. Otherwise there would be no apps for those other platforms. Apple may well get out of the developer game, which seems like a dumb idea given their market share, but I'm neither a finance expert nor an Apple executive, so maybe that's just how the numbers play out. Microsoft is making a decent-sized push in this space latel…

Microsoft learned, thanks to OS X, that most developers don't really want a UNIX, they are more than happy with a POSIX compatible layer for bash, awk, perl, C....

I bet if they had kept the original POSIX personality and improved it throughout the years, many devs would have not looked elsewhere.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#106

Post by pjmlp »

code_duck wrote: post #50
_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

As far as Ubuntu supporting window snapping, it’s worth noting that Linux has supported every conceivable window management feature for years, including some that have never come anywhere near Windows or Mac, like tiling window managers. making window management entirely modular. Every WM or desktop combo in Linux has other features I find highly convenient which are strangely missing from Mac and Windows, such as a…

My favorite feature, minimize to title bar, seems to be left for Window Maker and KDE, everyone else apparently has dropped it.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#107

Post by pjmlp »

_bxg1 wrote: post #59
exelius wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all the new IAC stuff coming out, expect big companies to move the web IDE route over the next 10 years. Even if it’s less functional, they will push it out. I have several clients really interested in it; not least because in combination with a serverless architecture, it makes end-to-end security really easy.

It's imaginable, especially with WebAssembly on the horizon, but I still don't see non-web developers ever being able to use a web IDE without making sacrifices.

Sadly I can see it coming, as replacement for Citrix VMs.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#109

Post by pfranz »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #86
_bxg1 wrote: post #8

I would honestly love to see a ground-up rebuild, but not the kind that would probably happen. OSX is getting creaky; it seems like it's had an increasing number of integral bugs lately, and the "redesign" that came with Yosemite felt more like a rushed coat of paint than a substantial rethink of the UX. Here's what I'd like to see: a fresh desktop OS that actually innovates in the space. Desktop UX innovation has sl…

I personally disagree. OS X, even older versions, is to me worlds ahead of Windows 7/10. I love the menu bar at the top for application-specific menus, the tabbed file manager, Spotlight is the best system-wide search compared to Windows or any third-party Windows tools. Devices like audio interfaces and printers are so much easier to get working than on Windows. The system preferences menu is a lot cleaner and easie…

I think the menu bar at the top served macOS well over the years, but I think menus on the window are a better solution now that multi monitor and high resolution monitors are so common. Having it at the top of your primary monitor just ruins Fitt's law.

It may be because of how I use a computer, but I only use Spotlight as an application launcher. Because it's there I will type stuff in the "Search" box in Finder, expecting to filter on the filename of the current folder--instead it it searches "This Mac" and my results are variable names from open source code I've downloaded. Since it also omits results from System files and preferences, like ~/Library, I often use good old locate in a Terminal.

Windows Control Panel is an unholy mess. macOS' Preference Pane search, as well as searching for menu items under Help inside any app, is a godsend.

Re: OS X is as old as the classic Mac OS was when it came out

#110

Post by nkristoffersen »

qop wrote: post #75

That took a moment to parse, but what a neat observation. I've always admired apple from afar. I wish they cared More about lower rung use cases. If apple came out with something to compete with chromebooks, maybe $500-600 range, I'd be the first in those ridiculous lines. Tangent: what's the outlook for swift on the server? Is that work group doing any work lately? Hell I heard swift was investigating memory safety…

I think from Apple's perspective the iPad is the $500-$600 Chromebook competitor suitable for everyone. People have different opinions on the actually usefulness but Apple has been pretty clear saying the iPad is 'the future PC'.

Regarding swift on server, I think this could be fun. Will try it some day https://vapor.codes/

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