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Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

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Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#101

Post by Nomentatus »

xtracto wrote: post #100
agar wrote: post #12

As much as I love the concept, I can only imagine what a professional with expertise in cephalopods and their DNA would think while reading this article. If you've ever read a popular press story in your area of expertise, you immediately see how many things writers oversimplify to the point of absurdity, or just get plain wrong. I'm guessing the authors of that journal article, were they to read this news story, wou…

And that kind of irresponsible press also has managed to hinder the progress of science. Take for example Podkletnov's research, which was hastly taken into popular press and caused a halt in the studies (whereas the actual paper was conservative and measured).

Let's blame the scientists who cared so much about avoiding any possible embarrassment that were unwilling to do their job - which was to take the original paper for its own merits. Science funding gets bent away from promising areas for all kinds of crummy, narcissistic reasons. Blame the narcissism, not just sloppy journalism which is eternal and perhaps unavoidable.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#102

Post by Nomentatus »

faizshah wrote: post #11

"[The authors] present a fantastic overview of the various hypotheses about the evolution of life on our planet and the contribution of extraterrestrial elements. The review includes many references, several different opinions and ranges all the way to the up-todate literature...The authors take, however, one more step. Their view differs from common scientific concepts and available evidence, claiming that the origi…

They don't cite "any evidence?" C'mon man, they cite quite a bit of evidence. No-one can read the article and truthfully say this. Size of DNA, sophistication of adaptation, differential body symettry, off the top of my head. Is that weak evidence? Well then by the same token, it's evidence.

This seems to be one of the many, many times when contemporary scientists say "there is no evidence of X" when what they mean is that there is no incontrovertible evidence (the other name for which, of course, is "proof.")

But proof and evidence are manifestly not the same thing and conflating them to confuse one's opponents does nobody any favors.

Evidence that is not defeasible remains evidence. Luckily so - because post-Popper, we know that all scientific evidence is defeasible and proof never actually arrives.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#103

Post by Nomentatus »

Tomminn wrote: post #42

I'm not saying this idea is wrong, but it comes with a large grain of salt. Like everything else in the world, 90% of science is crap. If there is no proposed falsifiability criterion, there is no science here.

I share your discouragement with the present state of "science" (see the Replication Crisis) but the trouble with your comment that it applies to everything ever written, not this article in particular, not to mention that Theodore Sturgeon said it first, as a still more general rule.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#104

Post by Nomentatus »

tmearnest wrote: post #63

I find this notion to be completely ridiculous. There's some things that are common to all life. The genetic code for instance. There are of course different dialects [1], but they're all fairly similar, and all code for the same set of amino acids. Cephalopods use the same means of storing genetic information, DNA with the bases G, C, A, and T. They have the same machinery to translate the genetic code into proteins…

Which is why it wasn't asserted. See Panspermia.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#106

Post by TimTheTinker »

khazhoux wrote: post #84
TimTheTinker wrote: post #19

Just my own perspective: as one who believes God is responsible for the origin, complexity, and diversity of life, this article makes me chuckle. The theory of evolution as an explanation of the origin of the major taxa of life really paints us into a corner from which it is difficult to wiggle out. In my opinion, the panspermia/alien origin hypothesis (and its persistence as an explanation in some respected circles)…

You're right. It's not nearly as clean a solution as "God did everything, QED"

I’m not saying “God is the origin” removes all the unknowns or difficulties, or is sufficient to explain every detail. Quite the opposite: it adds another dimension of unknowns and mystery, because it allows “why?” to be a meaningful question (speaking of ultimate meaning/purpose, beyond natural preconditions and mechanisms) in scientific inquiry, in addition to “what”, “how”, etc.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#107

Post by Tomminn »

Nomentatus wrote: post #103
Tomminn wrote: post #42

I'm not saying this idea is wrong, but it comes with a large grain of salt. Like everything else in the world, 90% of science is crap. If there is no proposed falsifiability criterion, there is no science here.

I share your discouragement with the present state of "science" (see the Replication Crisis) but the trouble with your comment that it applies to everything ever written, not this article in particular, not to mention that Theodore Sturgeon said it first, as a still more general rule.

I assumed the HN crowd was familiar with the fact that "90% of everything is crap" is someone else's idea. This was probably not a good assumption to make.

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#108

Post by DoreenMichele »

Tomminn wrote: post #107
Nomentatus wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I share your discouragement with the present state of "science" (see the Replication Crisis) but the trouble with your comment that it applies to everything ever written, not this article in particular, not to mention that Theodore Sturgeon said it first, as a still more general rule.

I assumed the HN crowd was familiar with the fact that "90% of everything is crap" is someone else's idea. This was probably not a good assumption to make.

Even if they are, framing matters. Your framing sounded like "this is my (ugly) opinion" not like "Everyone knows this common saying."

Re: Group of scientists suggest that octopuses might actually be aliens

#110

Post by detaro »

philbarr wrote: post #109

Octopuses? Octopi, surely?

Both are fine. (Octopi is arguably wrong, since octopus comes from Greek, not Latin (where you'd find that style of pluralization), but is used so commonly that it has become part of the language)
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