How much extra do NYC renters pay from not building enough new supply?
Or from rent control stifling the development of new supply?
NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
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Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#102If a few thousand airbnb units cost renters that much money, imagine how much renters would save if more and taller buildings were allowed to be built!
There's already a major building boom going on in NYC at the moment! 11+ super-talls (300m+) and 40+ talls (150m+) are under construction at the moment, and more than that has been completed in just the last few years. Massive amounts of rental units and co-ops are coming online in UWS (Riverside Center), Hudson Yards in Mid-Town etc [1]. And prices have come noticeably down as a result, you can also get more concess…
I dont think the prices have come down at all, they may have flatten out. Most of the new units are high end, 4k for 1bed?
Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#103Unfortunately, Airbnb is probably the only way a middle-class family can earn money on investment properties. No one in their right mind would rent a $1,000,000 condo for (1% rule) $10,000.
The 1% rule applies to cashflow investors, NYC is basically at the complete other end of the spectrum and this rule makes no sense there.
Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
The odd thing is that AirBnB’s entire value proposition to hosts is that it increases realizable income from the property they control and make available through AirBnB; if true, especially in the presence of supply constraints, this has to increase market clearing prices. They are in a position where what they need hosts to believe is directly at odds with what they want policymakers (including people voting directl…
Yes, but it will also increase occupants and the experience of occupants. If you put a fancy restaurant that sells gourmet popcorn, you raise the price of popcorn in general, and you can also increase the amount of people that eat popcorn.
I don't think it's relevant to compare popcorn to positional goods like housing.
Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#105Is there really much evidence that the majority of Airbnb properties would otherwise be traditional "12 month lease" rental apartments if it were not for Airbnb. I mean, I'm sure there are a few, but if I'm a landlord, why would I give up having a stable tenant paying market rate rent for 12 months at a time for essentially managing a hotel room? Sure, the 'rent per day' is going to be a lot better with the hotel roo…
I think in general, it's very difficult if not impossible to realistically explore the counterfactual of "what would this property be if not for Airbnb". However, in my neighborhood long term 12 month lease rentals most definitely seem to be being turned into Airbnb rentals. I live in Tahoe, so this isn't necessarily going to generalize to non-tourist areas. In the last five years there has been a steady conversion -…
Have the anti-rental things Tahoe done anything to curtail the local movement or is that not in your neighborhood?
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Study-Tahoe-s-Airbnb-l...
Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
The spin is preposterous. They should just say that that's a natural outcome of better real estate utilization and that the city needs to figure out how to build more affordable housing.
Easy there with terms like “better real estate utilization”, which could be conflated with “more efficient rent seeking at the expense of housing consumers”. The end goal is not always maximum profit extraction. NYC is served best by balancing the needs of both long term and short term renters, while ensuring investors reasonable compensation/rates of return on capital invested for services provided.
This is not what people traditionally think of as "rent-seeking." Rent-seeking behavior is doing something to get more money without providing any corresponding value. AirBnb hosts do provide value -- just not to the people who live in the neighborhood. But it is fine to argue that, based on their willingness to pay more, out of town visitors provide better utilization of the housing resource.
TL;DR: Extracting rents from things you own by providing economic value to a customer is not "rent-seeking."
Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
Be careful what you wish for, especially if wishing for profit over anyone's well being or if wishing for disruption over sustainability. I hypothesize an antidote to capitalism could be collaboratively learning how to sustainably contribute to all life's needs together through science, art, and love. I'm very interested in picking apart this hypothesis. If you (the person reading this) disagree, would you be willing…
Profit creates well-being. Without profit, the economy stops.
I'm fairly certain well-being comes from needs being met. Life has no need for profit or money. Those are constructs that require believing what you said in order to be true.
Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#108How much extra do NYC renters pay from not building enough new supply? Or from rent control stifling the development of new supply?
Yes, the 0.7% of "rent controlled" units of NYC's available inventory that's shrinking by 2.5%/yr is totally stifling new supply.
Feel free to tell us about how the rent stabilized units, which do compromise 1/3 of the inventory but in 3/4 of cases are within spitting distance (10%, and see 4% rent increases every 2 years) of market rate are keeping down supply though. Tell us about about how luxury condos in places like East New York, Edenwald, Brownsville, Morrisania & Crotona, and Hunts Point are going to increase affordable housing in NYC. I am very interested in learning about this.
Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#109How much extra do NYC renters pay from not building enough new supply? Or from rent control stifling the development of new supply?
Whataboutery is probably not a great argument.
Re: NYC Renters Paid Extra $616M Thanks to Airbnb, Study Says
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
The odd thing is that AirBnB’s entire value proposition to hosts is that it increases realizable income from the property they control and make available through AirBnB; if true, especially in the presence of supply constraints, this has to increase market clearing prices. They are in a position where what they need hosts to believe is directly at odds with what they want policymakers (including people voting directl…
The spin is preposterous. They should just say that that's a natural outcome of better real estate utilization and that the city needs to figure out how to build more affordable housing.
So I have never seen anyone address the flip side of why there is a shortage of hotel space (hence airBNB).
The reality of the situation is that hotels make terrible neighbors, particularly terrible hallway neighbors. Most people do not want to live next to temporary accommodations, and if they were going to they would rather have a separate building designated for the purpose. It is completely valid for a city to be in favor of its citizens, and not for a few short-term visitors and someone looking to make a quick buck on their apartment.