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E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

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Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#101

Post by onli »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #86
reimertz wrote: post #30

As a CEO, you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can ignore obvious security flaws leading to 100 million social security numbers getting leaked without getting into jail. As a CEO, you can sexually harass your employees without getting into jail. Try and save the world by repurpose old computers, causing one of the biggest companies in the world to…

> you can have a business model that is ethically and morally wrong without getting into jail Rule of law. You go to jail for breaking the law, not for being unethical or immoral. Societies which forget this distinction fall fast. (Legislation, turning morals and ethics into laws, is the intermediating process your complaint more properly addresses.)

There is no law violated here.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#102

Post by fuball63 »

pc86 wrote: post #62
fuball63 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first response was "he should have used linux", but I came to a similar conclusion as you. People are scared of linux, despite it now being almost as easy as Windows to install/use for typical usage. E-waste is the result of computer transitioning from the role of "tool" to role of "disposable consumer good". The effort to provide people with the ability to easily repair their machines to a familiar state (being W…

Well the entire goal of this operation was to allow people to continue using their old Windows computers. The same people who are taking them in to physical stores to be refreshed, since that was the original customer for the disks. In that instance "just use Linux" is not an available option.

I clarified in my second paragraph that I think extending the lifetime of Windows machines is probably the most realistic way to combat e-waste, and is a noble endeavor.

I have two desktop computers, one is my primary machine and the other a home server that are 10+ years old and run Kubuntu and FreeBSD, respectively. Its easy to forget that some people don't want to swap out a CPU or add RAM over time, and that by using *nix there is a slower rate of resource bloat. Meeting people halfway by elongating Windows machine lifetimes is a great start.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#103

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

fuball63 wrote: post #34
dingaling wrote: post #3

I'm in two minds over this. First, it's ridiculous that someone is being jailed for 15 months for trying to make it easier to keep using older PCs and reducing waste. On the other hand that's the risk one takes when dabbling in the world of proprietary software. Where discouraging people from upgrading is seen as a threat to revenue and is attacked accordingly. Had he printed 34,000 Linux disks we'd never have had th…

My first response was "he should have used linux", but I came to a similar conclusion as you. People are scared of linux, despite it now being almost as easy as Windows to install/use for typical usage. E-waste is the result of computer transitioning from the role of "tool" to role of "disposable consumer good". The effort to provide people with the ability to easily repair their machines to a familiar state (being W…

> My first response was "he should have used linux", but I came to a similar conclusion as you. People are scared of linux, despite it now being almost as easy as Windows to install/use for typical usage.

People aren't any more scared of Linux than they are of Windows. Not to go on yet another rant about all the problems with Linux as a desktop, but refusing to acknowledge that they exist and instead blaming users is part of the reason people don't use Linux.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#104

Post by unethical_ban »

cptskippy wrote: post #92
unethical_ban wrote: post #6

This is one of the most unabashedly sinister first-world articles I've read in a while. Microsoft's argument hinges on two damages: Either, they didn't get to charge a convenience fee to customers, or they were losing revenue by people unexpectedly extending the life of their computers. Foolish judges and evil lawyers putting a decent person away for 13 months.

No, this is an unabashedly sinister misinformation campaign by someone who didn't read the article or understand what this guy was doing. He wasn't distributing restore disks with refurbished PCs. He manufactured 28000 Restore Disks containing Microsoft Windows and was selling them. He justified his actions by saying they were only to be used on licensed machines. That's like me selling a backup copy of your Book and…

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those restore disks only work if the machine is already licensed. You can go download Windows 10 ISOs from microsoft.com right now, but you can't install it without a key.

To use your analogy, it would be like you redistributing an encrypted book file that the publisher had emailed me when I bought my hard copy, but I couldn't open it anyway unless I had the key from the back cover.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#105

Post by joeevans1000 »

datalus wrote: post #69
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #48

Why isn’t he appealing? Where is the ACLU?

He just lost the appeal...

I'm appealing to all talented college engineers and others to avoid applying to work Microsoft at all costs. They pursued this guy and are the reason this actually got so far. Your work would be literally furthering this sort of absurd outcome.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#106

Post by kickopotomus »

cptskippy wrote: post #92
unethical_ban wrote: post #6

This is one of the most unabashedly sinister first-world articles I've read in a while. Microsoft's argument hinges on two damages: Either, they didn't get to charge a convenience fee to customers, or they were losing revenue by people unexpectedly extending the life of their computers. Foolish judges and evil lawyers putting a decent person away for 13 months.

No, this is an unabashedly sinister misinformation campaign by someone who didn't read the article or understand what this guy was doing. He wasn't distributing restore disks with refurbished PCs. He manufactured 28000 Restore Disks containing Microsoft Windows and was selling them. He justified his actions by saying they were only to be used on licensed machines. That's like me selling a backup copy of your Book and…

No, not at all. It is more akin to you selling a backup copy of the book that is bound by a lock. The people that buy your version of the book must either already have the key to unlock it or buy it separately.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#107

Post by belltaco »

snuxoll wrote: post #85
gambiting wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Say I have a computer without windows, or maybe an older cheaper version of windows. Is it correct that these restore disks arent a utility to get a free new copy of windows That is correct. You still need a licence key to install Windows using those disks. Without the key the disk is worthless. They aren't and never were a way for people to get "free" copies of windows.

Unfortunately this is an area where copyright law is not up to date with regards to installation media for software with built-in DRM regimes. The value of Windows installation media is the cost of the disk it is burned to + the time it takes to burn unless there's an associated license (or a crack bundled that would let you bypass activation, which got laughably easy post-Windows 8 because of the new SLIC activation…

>The value of Windows installation media is the cost of the disk it is burned to + the time it takes to burn

That's the cost, not the value. If value = cost, no one will ever make a profit.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#109

Post by treis »

sevensor wrote: post #59
treis wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did a little bit more research and my original post was factually inaccurate, but the point was correct. An article from 2011 says this: >The original Microsoft (COA) attached to the PC does not allow you to reload Microsoft Windows software when no original recovery media is present. https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/mssmallbiz/2011/10/05/looki... So that's the crucial point. Yes, the software was free to download,…

> >The original Microsoft (COA) attached to the PC does not allow you to reload Microsoft Windows software when no original recovery media is present. Thank you for digging this up. This is an important point, and I think a lot of us, including myself and the hapless recycler, have naively assumed that sticker plus iso equals a legit install in Microsoft's eyes. Nevertheless, it's still a travesty that he was convict…

Oh come on. He wasn't a hapless recycler. He was the CEO of a 100 person for profit company processing 41 million pounds of stuff from IBM, Motorola, and Sprint. He knew exactly what he was doing. Who do you think he was intending to sell these CDs to? His own company, of course. And why? To increase his profit by $25 a computer.

There's no other logical explanation. No one would go through the trouble of exactly replicating a physical CD with logos and all unless they had nefarious intentions.

Re: E-waste recycler loses appeal on computer restore disks, must serve prison term

#110

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

DoctorOetker wrote: post #88
reimertz wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might argue that repurposing old computers and licenses attached to said computer might have an (minimal) effect on Microsofts revenue since that might lead to potential sells not happening. That is the only reason I can see why they would pursue a case like this. But I cannot phantom how they cannot see how this will backfire quite badly, making them look both greedy and environmentally disconnected.

whats next? "Diet coach Daisy, sent to jail as McDonalds loses customers" "CPU designer Claire, sent to jail as its optimized caching algorithm lowers demand for RAM sales" "Louis Pasteur, unearthed from the grave, incarcerated as milk sales fall due to longer shelf-life"

Wouldn't be surprising really. If you base your society on worshiping greed, don't be surprised when it ends up being run by the greedy.
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