Can psychedelics make you a better person? • Hacker News Board

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#101

Post by nugga » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 7:20 AM UTC

freeloop10 wrote: post #67

tree_of_item wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted you because psychedelic culture is about as anti-consumerist as it gets, and it takes a pretty incredible reversal to try and paint it as a product being pushed for people to buy.

I don't understand psychedelic culture, admittedly, but I can't wrap my head around why you think it's anti consumerist. Drugs are being bought and consumed, right? Isn't that the core of the culture? "Do this one thing, that costs money, to improve your life." I don't see the fundamental difference between that and purchasing any other product. Thanks for saying why you downvoted, anyway.

Because drug culture isn't about buying things you don't need with money you don't have to distract yourself from the now so you wouldn't feel existential dread or have to face your runaway thoughts. Psychedelics take you to the NOW and almost force you to deal with YOUR shit.

It's impossible to try to convey what it is like to someone who hasn't taken them. You just won't know what you're missing or how it is until you try because it works on your core being and whatever it is that filters the reality that is experienced.

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#102

Post by nugga » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 7:25 AM UTC

tree_of_item wrote: post #77

vitro wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Research" because it cannot be done officially as LSD is illegal, so he relies on subjective reports of people who microdose, which cannot be precise and standardized, of course. Have you tried it? What I can recommend to you is to go and try it yourself, then tell me if it is homeopathy. Nothing can replace your own experience.

It doesn't matter if it's illegal. Psilocybin and MDMA are illegal but there's research being done there. Microdosing is homeopathy because of the emphasis on "sub-perceptual" doses. There's no such thing, when it comes to psychedelics. You either perceive it, or it didn't work. Fadiman could do blind testing to try to prove me wrong, but he won't. Why not? I'm sure there are lots of people who report "benefits" from…

Yeah I think sub perceptual is a ridiculous term. Microdosing on the other hand is legit. Take a quarter tab (say 25 ug for the sake of the argument) or 0.33 grams of psilocybin mushrooms and you won't see visuals but you will feel a slight increase of energy and perception and will not be as overwhelmed or incapacitated as you would if you were "tripping balls" on a "full" dose.

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#103

Post by Denzel » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 7:28 AM UTC

alchemism wrote: post #74

jrq wrote: post #24

If I hadn't taken LSD, I never would've started my recovery from alcohol. Nothing in my life is as valuable to me as my sobriety is and has been, and I don't see myself ever making the painstaking effort to get sober without that trip. I don't want to turn this thread into a trip report, however I will share that my trip led my thoughts to my last actions, some bad decisions and some bad habits I had formed. Real tal…

The entire Alcoholics Anonymous regimen is the result of the insights gained on an LSD trip.

Please don't spread unsubstantiated claims. You'll need to provide a source for this claim.

This sounds genuinely interesting. However if it's not backed up by evidence then you're just spreading misinformation.

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#104

Post by KozmoNau7 » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 9:57 AM UTC

HIPisTheAnswer wrote: post #86

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem with coffee?

It is very bad for your health, and doesn't have much benefits. Opium is- again- a very good replacement. But the problem with opium as compared to coffee is that it doesnt have this 'uncomfortable dose' limit which basically stops people from taking extravagant doses of coffee. So a lot of people will just keep taking more and more, which ends up being harmful. Nothing is free in this world. But coffee is really bad…

That's not an explanation.

Why is coffee so bad?

I can find a ton of papers on the positive effects of coffee. Only very few on possible negative effects, they primarily focus on cafestol and kahweol as bad for cholesterol, but only when the coffee isn't made with paper filters, which trap those oils.

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#105

Post by n4r9 » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 11:58 AM UTC

HIPisTheAnswer wrote: post #55

> There is a strong claim here that has never been tested: can psychedelics make you a better person? Never been tested !? Is this person on drugs or something !? Ahahahaha! But seriously, homo sapiens quite obviously happened from a collision of apes with psychedelics (most probably psilocybin mushrooms)... So without psychedelics there would never have been any people! Terrence McKenna very thoroughly explained thi…

A major problem with the Stoned Ape Hypothesis for me is that it lacks any physical mechanism. It's fair enough to argue that psychedelics might increase some cognitive or perceptual faculties, but McKenna never explains how this could lead to a selection pressure for intelligence, or any other mechanism for genetic alteration.

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#106

Post by alchemism » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 2:19 PM UTC

Denzel wrote: post #103

alchemism wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire Alcoholics Anonymous regimen is the result of the insights gained on an LSD trip.

Please don't spread unsubstantiated claims. You'll need to provide a source for this claim. This sounds genuinely interesting. However if it's not backed up by evidence then you're just spreading misinformation.

Here's a few links to explore further:

"This is some rare TV footage of LSD research conducted in Los Angeles in 1956 by Dr. Sidney Cohen, which included an interview with Gerald Heard, an Anglo-Irish philospher who turned on a number of influential Americans in the 1950s. Among them was AA co-founder Bill Wilson, who thought LSD could help some drunks have a spiritual awakening. Wilson's first trip was in this very room in summer of 1956 and was supervised by Dr. Cohen and guided by Mr. Heard. The whole story, and much more, is told in "Distilled Spirits -- Getting High, Then Sober, with a Famous Writer, a Forgotten Philosopher, and a Hopeless Drunk" by Don Lattin, the author of the bestselling "The Harvard Psychedelic Club." The "Famous Writer" in this blend of memoir and group biography is Aldous Huxley, the author of "Brave New World" and "The Doors of Perception."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeO2BOdmkEg

and

https://aabeyondbelief.org/2015/10/21/the-lsd-experiments/

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#107

Post by Jefro118 » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 2:44 PM UTC

Nomentatus wrote: post #91

arca_vorago wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't saying the CIA was it's discoverer, but rather it is the one that pushed LSD as part of the counter-culture movement of the 60's, which included experimentation on people (often without them knowing) in mkultra/artichoke programs and more. A quote from Timothy Leary: "I give the CIA total credit for sponsoring and initiating the entire conciousness movemenet, counter-culture events of the 1960's." As for why…

Usually synthetic forms of any molecule are dangerous or have side effects the natural form doesn't because both the left and right-hand mirror forms of the molecule are present, in equal quantities, in the synthetic product. It's only recently that we've been able to separate and discard one form to create synthetics that are of only one-handedness. A new, better zyrtec (drug for allergies) that's come on the market…

I'm still unconvinced that LSD itself is more dangerous than natural alternatives (which is not a direct reply to you), but this is really interesting. I had no idea that chirality had such a significant impact on how dangerous a molecule is.

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#108

Post by HIPisTheAnswer » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 5:55 PM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #104

HIPisTheAnswer wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is very bad for your health, and doesn't have much benefits. Opium is- again- a very good replacement. But the problem with opium as compared to coffee is that it doesnt have this 'uncomfortable dose' limit which basically stops people from taking extravagant doses of coffee. So a lot of people will just keep taking more and more, which ends up being harmful. Nothing is free in this world. But coffee is really bad…

That's not an explanation. Why is coffee so bad? I can find a ton of papers on the positive effects of coffee. Only very few on possible negative effects, they primarily focus on cafestol and kahweol as bad for cholesterol, but only when the coffee isn't made with paper filters, which trap those oils.

The book to read is entitled "Caffeine blues" - which you will not need to read completely to be cured of coffee forever.

Finding tons of papers stating something or another about one of the most lucrative 'non-banned' drug in the world in the period of greatest drug illiteracy to information ratio is no great feat, my friend. Certainly, one can find tons of papers on the web on the merits of perpetual motion machines.

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#109

Post by whatyoucantsay » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 6:36 PM UTC

Denzel wrote: post #103

alchemism wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire Alcoholics Anonymous regimen is the result of the insights gained on an LSD trip.

Please don't spread unsubstantiated claims. You'll need to provide a source for this claim. This sounds genuinely interesting. However if it's not backed up by evidence then you're just spreading misinformation.

> However if it's not backed up by evidence then you're just spreading misinformation.

Do you hold all comments to that bar, or only the less-pedestrian ones?

Re: Can psychedelics make you a better person?

#110

Post by freeloop10 » Sun, Apr 22, 2018, 9:34 PM UTC

nugga wrote: post #101

freeloop10 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand psychedelic culture, admittedly, but I can't wrap my head around why you think it's anti consumerist. Drugs are being bought and consumed, right? Isn't that the core of the culture? "Do this one thing, that costs money, to improve your life." I don't see the fundamental difference between that and purchasing any other product. Thanks for saying why you downvoted, anyway.

Because drug culture isn't about buying things you don't need with money you don't have to distract yourself from the now so you wouldn't feel existential dread or have to face your runaway thoughts. Psychedelics take you to the NOW and almost force you to deal with YOUR shit. It's impossible to try to convey what it is like to someone who hasn't taken them. You just won't know what you're missing or how it is until…

If that is the definition of consumerist, I'm not one in any way. I'm in my 40's, retired and living abroad in a small apartment. I have no car, and live well within my means.

I've met a lot of people who have done a lot of drugs, including, but not limited to psychedelics, including close family members who I knew well and could watch their descent. The ones I know are depressed, some have suicided, others are in huge amounts of debt.

If psychedelics are such a cure all, why have I never met anyone who took them who had their shit together?

Writing in a diary, talking to a therapist, and opening up to people can also be ways of dealing with your own problems in a direct manner, without so much risk.