China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls • Hacker News Board

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#101

Post by galieos_ghost » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 4:56 PM UTC

andy_ppp wrote: post #35

galieos_ghost wrote: post #23

For an authoritarian government to work long term they have to be the highest power. This is why the Soviets worked so hard to destroy the church as well as the concept of family, people who value god or family above the government are a threat. In effect the government has to become god.

Is this true? I always found it strange that the Kremlin literally has five churches inside of it... I mean Communism and Christianity have a surprising amount of commonality. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism

Kremlin was first built in 1485, most churches were built well before the soviet era.

As for persecution of clergy is true, I suppose it depends if you count mass murder, torture, and shutting down churches as persecution

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-religious_campaign_during...

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#102

Post by lainga » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 4:57 PM UTC

hexo wrote: post #61

surfmike wrote: post #31

Religion proved to be a strong counter to communism in Eastern Europe. It's no wonder they're scared.

and strong supporters of nazis... (speaking about catholics)

Certain cardinals in the Vatican supported the Nazis. I don't see how the Kirchenkampf, Mit brennender sorge and the actions of Catholics in the camps were outweighed by those cardinals' actions, any more than the Belgians were Nazis because of Leon Degrelle.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#103

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

factsaresacred wrote: post #89

jacquesm wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The church has literally zero power to do anything in the UK. That's not for lack of trying and a direct consequence of doing exactly that.[1] Also: (edit: Northern) Ireland is very much a part of the UK and the church has a lot of power there. > We live in secular societies and I cannot believe your statement is provably true. You don't have to believe it, that's fine by me. Having lived in Romania and seeing a po…

> Ireland is very much a part of the UK and the church has a lot of power there. Only 27% of Irish people hold a favorable view of the Church. The population are very much cultural Christians, most recently voting in favor of gay marriage and likely to rewrite the constitution to allow for limited abortion. The power of the Church is very limited and waning. Although just a few decades ago they did have considerable…

Ireland is one of the few countries that has seen up close how even splinter groups of what is essentially the same religion can go to war with each other.

Between Ian Paisley and the IRA Ireland has learned a large number of super expensive lessons many of which have their roots in the protestant and catholic movements, handily used by the English to keep everybody divided. That's a very black chapter in European history.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#104

Post by salimmadjd » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 4:58 PM UTC

Christianity has become a political tool now. It's a bit similar to how America feared and still does not allow members of communist party to become US citizens [1].

On the power of evangelical christianity, just look at some parts of central America, where there has been a strong conversion to evangelical Christianity. So strong that, is considered one of the reasons Hounders and Guatemala voted along with Trump administration on UN Jerusalem resolution. [2], [3]

[1]https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/16/communist-pa... [2] https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/un-jerusal... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/guatemala-...

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#105

Post by richardknop » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #73

richardknop wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they? Many notable atheists are known for their disdain of Abrahamic religions and how they poison minds of uneducated majority of the world.

Even strident atheists (Bill Maher) are not exactly picky about mocking whatever form of "invisible friend" you delude yourself with. It's just easy to mock an overgrown persecution complex and blatant hypocrisy on high-profile Christian/evangelists.

Bill Maher is a TV personality. I’d not consider a representative of atheism. Richard Dawkins or Christoper Hitchens would be better candidates. Bill Maher is mostly a comedian.

Thanks for the downvotes btw, as a Christian critical of evangelists and similar conmen I don’t really care.

You should read some writings of Einstein and other great scientists btw, hardcore atheism is very radical niche and even most evolutionary biologists and theoretical physicists don’t believe it.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#106

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

surfmike wrote: post #98

burfog wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leader of your church has the right to dissolve parliament. She can also refuse to grant assent to a law. That's not zero power.

That's more about the monarchy; the monarch is not the spiritual head of the church, and the fact that they are considered the lead if anything shows how the state triumphed over religion.

Separation of Church and state is a thing in many places. Usurping of the power of the Church by the state is just as bad as the reverse.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#107

Post by 794CD01 » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 4:59 PM UTC

rukittenme wrote: post #58

Quarrelsome wrote: post #26

Its worth noting the absolutely insane impact that cargo cult Christianity had on China which arguably caused the Chinese civil war. That might be some context as to why Christianity has been singled out? EDIT: why would you downvote this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiping_Heavenly_Kingdom From the source: > A self-proclaimed convert to Christianity, Hong Xiuquan ... [claimed] ... that he was the second son of Go…

You're being down-voted because your comment can be construed as justification. Which, if it is, is absolutely deplorable.

If you disagree with the justification, it would be better to explain that position. Otherwise it appears that you are starting from the premise that this is bad so any justification presented must necessarily be dismissed regardless of validity.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#108

Post by mynegation » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

dwheeler wrote: post #82

icebraining wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why "even atheists"? Historically, atheists are not even close to the biggest aggressors against Christians. That would be other Christians , probably followed by Muslims (during the ascendancy of the Caliphates).

Christians have been persecuted by polytheists, atheists, Muslims, and many others. Ancient Rome sent many Christians to the lions. The USSR had official state atheism, for example, and persecuted Christians. Certainly Christians have persecuted other Christians, but I think there's little evidence that Christians have been the dominant ones. Much more info is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Christ…

Late Christopher Hitchens had a brilliant answer to the atheistic USSR persecuting Christians: Stalin was building his own cult. As an ignostic or anti-theist (depending on when you ask me) I do not want to have anything in common with the cult-building monsters of past, present or future.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#109

Post by stuffedBelly » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 5:00 PM UTC

There is going to be repercussion. The Chinese government starts to treat Christianity as a cult like Falun Gong, to which it used the same tactic. But unlike Falun Gong, which is more of a home-brew quasi religion from the 90s, Christianity and missionary activities have been intrinsically rooted in major cities like Nanjing and Shanghai, especially during the wartime.

This also sends a danger sign to the Uyghur area, which is Muslim dominated, making Uyghurs worry that Muslim might be the next religion to crack down. If the Chinese government wants stability and total control of its people, this is not the way to do it. And unlike two decades ago, there are now hundreds of ways to uprise and much harder to crack down.

Re: China Bans Online Bible Sales as It Tightens Religious Controls

#110

Post by hangonhn » Fri, Apr 06, 2018, 5:02 PM UTC

rrggrr wrote: post #64

Another sign (among many) that China is preparing for significant social unrest and probably global instability. I suspect the CCP has concluded that a rebalancing of its economy is inevitable, close at hand, and will be painful for most Chinese. The scale of China's challenge, maintaining order in a nation of its size, guarantees there will be overreach. I thought we might see mesh-networking emerge in Iran as a mea…

"History proves bottoms-up accountability delivers much better outcomes than top-down oversight."

Oh I'm not so sure about that. At least for results people can see within a short amount of time, a strong, competent authoritarian government can deliver results much faster and people like that. Democracies are messy and difficult. I'm not saying this because I am pro-authoritarianism but rather as an admonishment against the notion that democracy will somehow win as if it is a law of nature and things will just flow that way ("end of history" stuff and all that). Democracy requires work and faith that it is better in the long run. Authoritarianism arises when people lose faith and patience and the demagogue promises quick results through the application of unbridled power. If we want democracy, we have to be vigilant and participate and have a good dose of patience. It requires more from the individuals than authoritarianism.