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Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

independent.co.uk

101–110 of 161 posts

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So how do prevent things from getting dirty?

1. Spartan life. Dust is created by not just hair and skin but all upholstered items, cloth items, books, particle board etc. The less of that you have, the less dust and dirt you have. 2. No deep frying. It's the single nastiest way to cook and coats the entire kitchen in grease. It also is terrible for your health. 3. Keep your own hair short and do a lot of walking. The lymphatic system is powered by motion. It is…

Thanks.

Agree, deep frying should be avoided greases up surfaces even with an extractor. And I'm a fan of minimalism too.

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#102

Believing a report in a general news publication that attempts to summarize the conclusion of a study that hasn't been replicated anywhere can lead to an increase in stupidity. Caveat emptor. Also, all headlines are clickbait. Get over it.

The original study: http://www.thoracic.org/about/newsroom/press-releases/resour...

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#103
post #69
post #12

I clean with a steamer. It doesn't project particles, and it's extremely good at disinfecting. I also use a vacuum cleaner with exceptionally low dust re-emission. And an air purifier. The only "chemicals" I use are an extremely mild lactic acid based cleaner and a pre/probiotic on toilets and kitchen tops. And I don't use any fragrances anywhere. My allergy problems have disappeared. I really recommend this approach…

Per the hygiene hypothesis, I wonder if your allergies got better because you’re exposing yourself to more (generally harmless) microorganisms and hence challenging your immune system more. Since I’m sure lactic acid doesn’t sterilize as well as some strong bleach or other chemical.

The idea that allergies somehow are caused by our sterile lifestyle is suspicious at best. It's might just be an appeal to nature - "all natural ingredients" fallacy.

I claim that an individual has never before - in the history of mankind - been exposed to so many and different microorganisms as we are now.

Comparing my daughter to my granddad, born 99 years before her, she probably meets as many "new" people per week - if not day, as he did in a whole year when growing up in a reasonably average community not far from a large city.

Me and my wife works in large organisations, and it's representatives are visiting or are visited by hundreds of people from around the world - every week, as do many - most in fact - of the other parents in her school of about 1000 students.

I have lunch in a canteen where approximately 3000 people eat every day, and we all are slopping around in the food warmers and salad bar sharing the utensils and pawing the bread with our halfheartedly washed hands.

On the way to our offices and schools we commute with thousands and thousands of people, all sniffling and coughing it seems.

The interconnectedness of it all is just - mind boggling. We are never more than 2 steps away from someone that were on the other side of the world, yesterday. Hopefully not in an Ebola zone.

A hypothetical "natural" state, where you sleep in a stack of hay with your pigs, and meet one "outsider" twice a a year doesn't seem to tax the immune system even a fraction of what we have to deal with today. Even it's a lot of microorganisms, it's yours (and the pigs) - unless some pigeons shit in your haystack/bed.

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#104
post #23

As a former chemist, call me suspicious of these findings. Can cleaners be an irritant to the lungs? Of course. Inhaling a lot of things can be an irritant. Most cleaners that consumers use are surfactants sometimes mixed with alkylbenzonium disinfectants (in very low concentration). Even cleaners that are ammonia based aren't harmful. Now on the professional side, I could believe there is risk. Some of those chemica…

> As a former chemist, call me suspicious of these findings.

I've been suspicious since they were posted, for a simple reason: so where's the lung cancers in aging housewives?

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#105
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious as well what steamer and products you are using?

I use a Kärcher SC3 steam cleaner. It's cheap (~€100) and pretty good. Even the SC2 is decent. As an alternative, Polti high-end ones are excellent. They invented domestic steamers, and I've seen some used at hospitals. The have accessories for e.g. steaming your mattress to get rid of dust mites. I use a Miele C3 Silence vacuum cleaner. It's the cheapest (~€220) Miele vacuum cleaner that has top (A class in EU) filt…

I wonder, what's your opinion about DIY air filters? Like a box fan plus a furnace filter. Both are not common in Europe, but you could get a different type of fan, and affordable HEPA filters from aliexpress.

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#106
post #103
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the hygiene hypothesis, I wonder if your allergies got better because you’re exposing yourself to more (generally harmless) microorganisms and hence challenging your immune system more. Since I’m sure lactic acid doesn’t sterilize as well as some strong bleach or other chemical.

The idea that allergies somehow are caused by our sterile lifestyle is suspicious at best. It's might just be an appeal to nature - "all natural ingredients" fallacy. I claim that an individual has never before - in the history of mankind - been exposed to so many and different microorganisms as we are now. Comparing my daughter to my granddad, born 99 years before her, she probably meets as many "new" people per wee…

The body of scientific evidence supporting the hygiene hypothesis is pretty strong.

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#107
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend started a company that sells high pH water for cleaning/disinfecting. https://phurwater.com/science/

What on earth is high pH water? Water has a pH. If something has a high pH it's not water.

> Product Description: 0.02% Sodium Hydroxide Solution generated Electro-Chemically from Diluted Brine

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#109

I don't like the idea of paying someone else to clean my filth, but I don't clean often enough myself. So I get really lazy, and soak a sponge in phosphoric acid[1] then rub it gently on the glass around the shower. Leave for 2 minutes, and the limescale in gone! It's much easier than any "real" cleaning product, and the phosphoric acid is the equivalent of about $1.50 for a litre. But I don't know if it's bad for me…

Where do you get phosphoric acid? The strongest conventionally available stuff is Limeaway and CLR and those are not strong enough for heavy calcium deposits. The strongest home stuff appears to be toilet bowl cleaners with diluted hydrochloric acid or hydrochloric acid for chlorinating pools.

It's from any supermarket in Denmark. This shows the whole shelf [1], which also has an acetic acid solution, ammonia solution, and sodium/potassium hydroxide for cleaning drains. And "cleaning benzene", whatever that's for. Most of the bottles are branded "BORUP", except the phosphoric acid, which is "KALK VÆK".

I found a safety information sheet [2], which says the phosphoric acid solution contains 5-15% phosphoric acid. That's stronger than Limeaway. If I pour it on limescale deposits I can hear it fizz.

The from-a-supermarket strong toilet bowl cleaner here (probably applies to most of the EU) contains "9% w/w -- 94 g/L HCl"

[1] https://shop.rema1000.dk/husholdning/rengoring-og-kemisk-tek...

[2] http://rema1000.dk/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Kalk-V%C3%A6k-...

Re: Cleaning sprays have an impact on lung health comparable to cigarettes

#110
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

loving the analogy

except that the genetic code is highly modular with multiple hierarchies, we just don't know how to read it yet

If we can't read it how do we know it's modular?
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