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UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

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Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#101

Post by jlees »

I'd think of this as more on-demand towncar than a new type of taxi-disrupting the limo business rings far more true. For the slightly upscale customer who wants privacy and looks and can pay a bit more. And not for women, dear god no. But women don't use technology anyway, right?

I was thinking about a similar idea and also the parallel concept of "AirBnB for passenger seats", rather than unused towncar inventory, an easier way to "book" a carpool ride from someone who's already going that way. You just run into a ton of tangles around insurance, carpooling vs taxi licenses, scaling especially abroad, and the fact that one bad driver - one accident - could completely ruin your entire business.

I do think there's potential in disrupting the taxi business, though my current angle of thought is more about using technology, especially cleantech and mobile bookings, to make it a low cost planet-friendly business. Just the thought of all those exhaust fumes scares me. Go EcoTaxis!

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#102

Post by lionhearted »

smoody wrote: post #6

a friend of a good friend of mine was brutally raped by an independent Lincoln Town Car licensed driver (in NYC). I would advise (my personal opinion) women to avoid such services and deal with the hassle of getting a cab. Getting into a stranger's car and closing the door behind you is an action that should not be taken lightly. That is why I always take a taxi or use a well-established car service (as in substantia…

Also - learn martial arts. I took Krav Maga, there were plenty of women in the class, and the techniques translate well to self defense even if you're not as big or strong as your assailant. They teach you to attack vulnerable areas - eyes and groin in particular - and how to break chokes, deal with someone trying to pick you up off the ground, things like that. Everyone who travels or otherwise has a not 100% safe routine should take 10-20 martial arts classes. Might save your life.

Edit: Can't resist an anecdote. There was a huge Russian instructor in one of our classes, and the class that day was about half women. He said, "Ok, man tries to rape you? Rip his eyes, like this. See? Rip! He can't see now for rest of life? Tough shit! Should not have tried rape you."

(Despite the machismo of how this might look in text, it was well received in person - a good community, good people, good training, very welcoming to everyone at any level of age or fitness. Definitely recommended, almost any studio will give you a free class so just google for your area and go take one. Really, it's awesome.)

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#103

Post by yummyfajitas »

jfager wrote: post #96
yummyfajitas wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are about 13,000 yellow cabs in all of NYC. The GWB and Lincoln tunnels have traffic of 320,000 and 120,000 vehicles (respectively). I'm too lazy to look up the number of people driving from non-NJ locales. Also, I didn't realize that the 37'th percentile of income (36'th percentile in NY [1]) did not count as lower middle class (or just plain middle class). My mistake. If the congestion tax costs less than $24…

There are about 13,000 yellow cabs in all of NYC. Which is the number set by the medallion system. My original point in this line of argument was that one of the main reasons cabs don't contribute to congestion in the city is because the number of cabs allowed in is capped. You're the one who wants to make that number bigger. Also, I didn't realize that the 37'th percentile of income (36'th percentile in NY [1]) did…

My original point in this line of argument was that one of the main reasons cabs don't contribute to congestion in the city is because the number of cabs allowed in is capped.

Even if the number of cabs increases by 5x (i.e., customers are underserved by a factor of 5x), it will still be a small number.

As for the distributional benefits, yes. I'm willing to harm the wages of a middle class cabbie if it helps a poor unemployed person. I'm kinda progressive that way.

You're taking the savings from the medallion and labor costs that you posited above and assuming they'd be passed directly to the consumer, but that's overly simplistic.

I don't think so. Consumers pay the average taxi $90,000/year. I'm proposing a change in which consumers would only pay that taxi $66,000/year.

By the way, I think we should reverse your argument. You seem to favor creating artificial shortages in low skill fields to drive up wages. Since this is presumably good policy, perhaps we should expand it. How about waiter licenses for high end restaurants (which primarily serve the rich)?

(I ask about expanding this policy to other sectors because I think status quo bias is the main reason you support the status quo.)

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#104

Post by CWuestefeld »

tptacek wrote: post #44
patio11 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American Taxi dispatches forty thousand fares a week. They're a wee bit bigger than me.

Come on, Patrick. American Taxi is pretty much the cab company for all of the Chicago suburbs. You think they do 40k fares to/from ORD? That's 500 fares an hour. There's a difference between airport taxi service by chauffeur-licensed drivers dispatched by a branded cab company (with something to lose if drivers misbehave) and "I signed up with 1 of 5 different companies that dispatch cabs with iPhones". I don't have…

Medallions serve to limit who is allowed to provide the service. There is no need for this limitation in order to ensure honest service.

For example, cabs could earn (and risk losing) a "Good Cabdriving Seal". There's no need for the quantity of such seals to be artificially limited: they could be unlimited, but only awarded to those that prove worthy.

And while we're at it, the agency doing the certification need not be a government agency at all. Why not Good Housekeeping, or Underwriters Laboratories, or Better Business Bureau?

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#105

Post by maxawaytoolong »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #104
tptacek wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, Patrick. American Taxi is pretty much the cab company for all of the Chicago suburbs. You think they do 40k fares to/from ORD? That's 500 fares an hour. There's a difference between airport taxi service by chauffeur-licensed drivers dispatched by a branded cab company (with something to lose if drivers misbehave) and "I signed up with 1 of 5 different companies that dispatch cabs with iPhones". I don't have…

Medallions serve to limit who is allowed to provide the service. There is no need for this limitation in order to ensure honest service. For example, cabs could earn (and risk losing) a "Good Cabdriving Seal". There's no need for the quantity of such seals to be artificially limited: they could be unlimited, but only awarded to those that prove worthy. And while we're at it, the agency doing the certification need no…

Only the government has authority to do something to the cab driver, though. The Better Business Bureau can't tell you to stop driving your cab.

The medaillion system is weird, but it works in new york.

The people who think that the invisible hand of the market would improve cab service are awesomely naive. The reason why cabs aren't fucked up in NYC is because of all the regulations, which can only be enforced because the cabbies have something to lose (the mediallion). If there was no government interference, cabs still wouldn't take credit cards, they wouldn't pick up non-white people, they wouldn't drive you to Brooklyn, they would form their own cabal and eventually rip out their meters and just make up whatever price they wanted to charge you, once you got there.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#106

Post by jfager »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #103
jfager wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are about 13,000 yellow cabs in all of NYC. Which is the number set by the medallion system. My original point in this line of argument was that one of the main reasons cabs don't contribute to congestion in the city is because the number of cabs allowed in is capped. You're the one who wants to make that number bigger. Also, I didn't realize that the 37'th percentile of income (36'th percentile in NY [1]) did…

My original point in this line of argument was that one of the main reasons cabs don't contribute to congestion in the city is because the number of cabs allowed in is capped. Even if the number of cabs increases by 5x (i.e., customers are underserved by a factor of 5x), it will still be a small number. As for the distributional benefits, yes. I'm willing to harm the wages of a middle class cabbie if it helps a poor…

How about waiter licenses for high end restaurants (which primarily serve the rich)?

High-end waitservice is hardly a low-skill field. Good waiters are well compensated, and restaurants compete for them almost like technology companies compete for programmers. And restaurants themselves are completely different businesses than taxis. Each additional taxi added to the city is more or less identical to the taxis that were there before, whereas restaurants are highly differentiated from each other. You can't predict the marginal payout of an additional restaurant.

But with that said, restaurants are regulated through zoning and health ordinances. You can't just start a restaurant out of your apartment or set up a table wherever you please to start serving people.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#107

Post by yummyfajitas »

jfager wrote: post #106
yummyfajitas wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My original point in this line of argument was that one of the main reasons cabs don't contribute to congestion in the city is because the number of cabs allowed in is capped. Even if the number of cabs increases by 5x (i.e., customers are underserved by a factor of 5x), it will still be a small number. As for the distributional benefits, yes. I'm willing to harm the wages of a middle class cabbie if it helps a poor…

How about waiter licenses for high end restaurants (which primarily serve the rich)? High-end waitservice is hardly a low-skill field. Good waiters are well compensated, and restaurants compete for them almost like technology companies compete for programmers. And restaurants themselves are completely different businesses than taxis. Each additional taxi added to the city is more or less identical to the taxis that w…

You are ducking the question by picking holes in my specific example (which might have been poorly chosen), so I'll phrase it in the abstract.

Consider any low skill job which serves rich customers. Under what conditions should we pass a law restricting supply, making an unlucky subset of those workers unemployed but raising wages for the remainder? All commodity services (including, but not limited to landscaping, taxis and maid service)?

Should we only do it in cases where we already do it? (I.e., should we simply maintain the status quo?)

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#108

Post by CWuestefeld »

maxawaytoolong wrote: post #105
CWuestefeld wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Medallions serve to limit who is allowed to provide the service. There is no need for this limitation in order to ensure honest service. For example, cabs could earn (and risk losing) a "Good Cabdriving Seal". There's no need for the quantity of such seals to be artificially limited: they could be unlimited, but only awarded to those that prove worthy. And while we're at it, the agency doing the certification need no…

Only the government has authority to do something to the cab driver, though. The Better Business Bureau can't tell you to stop driving your cab. The medaillion system is weird, but it works in new york. The people who think that the invisible hand of the market would improve cab service are awesomely naive. The reason why cabs aren't fucked up in NYC is because of all the regulations, which can only be enforced becau…

You're only saying that they work in NYC because you're taking for granted all of the failures. For example, how many times have you said "where's a cab when you need one?"?

because of all the regulations, which can only be enforced because the cabbies have something to lose

You think that the loss of the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval", or "UL Certification", or the like is nothing? Don't you think that potential customers would quickly learn to look for that emblem on a cab?

If there was no government interference, cabs still wouldn't

Nonsense. You're just making stuff up, without the slightest evidence. Do you really believe that cab customers would turn away paying customers just because they're not white? And even if they did, that would just open an opportunity for a minority-catering company to make a killing.

Re: UberCab to disrupt the Taxi/Limo business

#109

Post by maxawaytoolong »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #108
maxawaytoolong wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only the government has authority to do something to the cab driver, though. The Better Business Bureau can't tell you to stop driving your cab. The medaillion system is weird, but it works in new york. The people who think that the invisible hand of the market would improve cab service are awesomely naive. The reason why cabs aren't fucked up in NYC is because of all the regulations, which can only be enforced becau…

You're only saying that they work in NYC because you're taking for granted all of the failures. For example, how many times have you said "where's a cab when you need one?"? because of all the regulations, which can only be enforced because the cabbies have something to lose You think that the loss of the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval", or "UL Certification", or the like is nothing? Don't you think that potenti…

For example, how many times have you said "where's a cab when you need one?"?

In Manhattan? Never. (but I've never tried to get a cab in Harlem or north of that)

You think that the loss of the "Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval", or "UL Certification", or the like is nothing? Don't you think that potential customers would quickly learn to look for that emblem on a cab?

Are you serious? The only thing people look for is if the cab is yellow.

Nonsense. You're just making stuff up, without the slightest evidence.

I'm not just making stuff up, those are all things that cab drivers used to do until the city told them to stop doing those things.

Do you really believe that cab customers would turn away paying customers just because they're not white?

Yes.

And even if they did, that would just open an opportunity for a minority-catering company to make a killing.

Do you live in New York? There already are car services, livery cars and gypsy cabs.

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