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Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

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Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#101

Post by discoursism »

bleachedsleet wrote: post #50
zipwitch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change denialism has more in common with Flat Earth Theory than religion of any stripe. (Which makes so many Americans buying into it all the more frighting.)

...and flat earth theory also has a lot in common with religion. I'm sorry, but it is impossible to be a truly intelligent person that also believes in any religion without serious cherry picking or psychological compartmentalization. I say this as someone that loves studying religion (I have a degree in it), but I study it as an artform of human expression or an oddity that once was, not as a serious pursuit of self…

> ...and flat earth theory also has a lot in common with religion.

I wouldn't say so. At least not in the epistemic/anti-epistemic way that parallels climate-change denialism. Most religions make a lot of unfalsifiable claims. Since opponents cannot conclusively falsify those claims, it gives religious adherents an epistemic place to hide and claim personal religious experiences, etc.

Most religions have not, in the main, been conclusively refuted, since they involve events that happened thousands of years ago, and even when something is shown to have not happened, the adherents have good precedent for claiming that a given portion is allegorical. Since religious interpretation is rife with different viewpoints, they'll even have a respected theologian to point to who called it in advance.

Flat-eartherism is a horse of a different color. It makes a bunch of falsifiable predictions, which have subsequently been falsified many different ways. Then its proponents just ignore the evidence and keep on believing their viewpoint anyway. Epistemologically, climate change denial has a lot more in common with this than it does with religion.

I say this as an anti-theist. I don't have much good to say about religion, but I'd rather deal with someone who believes things which can't be proven rather than someone who believes things that have been conclusively disproven. Religious people are in that way a lot like anyone else. They aren't as deluded as someone who can look at clear evidence and simply ignore it.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#102

Post by enraged_camel »

discoursism wrote: post #101
bleachedsleet wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and flat earth theory also has a lot in common with religion. I'm sorry, but it is impossible to be a truly intelligent person that also believes in any religion without serious cherry picking or psychological compartmentalization. I say this as someone that loves studying religion (I have a degree in it), but I study it as an artform of human expression or an oddity that once was, not as a serious pursuit of self…

> ...and flat earth theory also has a lot in common with religion. I wouldn't say so. At least not in the epistemic/anti-epistemic way that parallels climate-change denialism. Most religions make a lot of unfalsifiable claims. Since opponents cannot conclusively falsify those claims, it gives religious adherents an epistemic place to hide and claim personal religious experiences, etc. Most religions have not, in the…

>>Most religions have not, in the main, been conclusively refuted

That's because most religions have as their central tenet a completely unfalsifiable claim: that there is a god.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#103

Post by bsbechtel »

zasz wrote: post #66
poster123 wrote: post #42

Doesn't warming of the coldest parts of the world mean there will be more usable land? I have read that global warming could have benefits for countries such as Russia.

There will be a net loss to global agriculture for a couple reasons: 1. Climate change implies increased variability in weather--hotter summers, wetter winters. Agriculture does best in a relatively stable environment. Just look at California--extremely wet winters followed by extremely hot wildfires. It's hard for a species to thrive in a very wide variety of conditions. Not impossible, of course, with humanity bein…

California is one of the most agriculturally diverse and productive regions in the world. I'm not sure what your point is, but implying agriculture struggles in California is just plain wrong.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#104

Post by discoursism »

enraged_camel wrote: post #102
discoursism wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ...and flat earth theory also has a lot in common with religion. I wouldn't say so. At least not in the epistemic/anti-epistemic way that parallels climate-change denialism. Most religions make a lot of unfalsifiable claims. Since opponents cannot conclusively falsify those claims, it gives religious adherents an epistemic place to hide and claim personal religious experiences, etc. Most religions have not, in the…

>>Most religions have not, in the main, been conclusively refuted That's because most religions have as their central tenet a completely unfalsifiable claim: that there is a god.

This is just what I said, but, yes, you are grasping the thrust of my comment.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#105

Post by Seed-void »

There is no global warming.

Deep Bore Into Antarctica Finds Freezing Ice, Not Melting as Expected | National Geographic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyjt5zpNAeg

At the Ross Ice Shelf in Antarctica, scientists used a hot-water drill hose to create a hole through the thick ice until they reached the perpetually dark water. What they found surprised them. Christina Hulbe/University of Otago/K061

Real weather information: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6VhLE7qAeW8NZm6PsXGGrQ/vid...

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#106

Post by Decade »

toasterlovin wrote: post #92
microtonal wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also simple things that one can do, that have an impact. For example, one could go on holiday to a local destination rather than flying half the world. Or you could cycle to work rather than traveling by car every day. (Sure, in the grand scheme of things, these will make small differences, but we have to cut our use of fossil fuel everywhere.)

I think this advice can be simplified greatly: reduce your expenditures. If you're spending less money, then you are consuming a smaller share of the world's bounty.

Reducing energy use doesn’t necessarily mean reducing expenditures. I mean, reducing expenditures can be good if you’re saving for something else, but you don’t have to.

Instead of buying and fueling the car, you can buy the luxury bicycle.

Instead of flying to Venice, you can rent a sailing yacht. Or whatever is local to your area.

It’s like dieting. The impulse is to reduce, naturally because you’re cutting things out, but eventually you figure out that you can fill your life with other experiences.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#107

Post by fyfy18 »

igravious wrote: post #96
boardwaalk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years of this does not make it normal. While we're quoting the article: > These kinds of temperature anomalies in the Arctic have become commonplace in winter in the past few years. Implying they haven't been in the past.

> A few years of this does not make it normal. I wasn't implying that. > Implying they haven't been in the past. Nor that. My only intention was to agree with the original commenter that the title and start of the article made it sound like this one event was a complete anomaly. Later on we find out that, no, this has been happening for a while. If it is not an anomaly then we need to know how frequently this tempera…

Another commenter posted a link to climate data from the Danish Meteorological Institute for the artic region for the past 50 years:

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

For most of the dataset the winter temperatures have followed the model fairly well (of course there are spikes), but for the last few years the winter temperature has been significantly higher than the model.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#108

Post by tntn »

bleachedsleet wrote: post #50
zipwitch wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change denialism has more in common with Flat Earth Theory than religion of any stripe. (Which makes so many Americans buying into it all the more frighting.)

...and flat earth theory also has a lot in common with religion. I'm sorry, but it is impossible to be a truly intelligent person that also believes in any religion without serious cherry picking or psychological compartmentalization. I say this as someone that loves studying religion (I have a degree in it), but I study it as an artform of human expression or an oddity that once was, not as a serious pursuit of self…

I like to think of myself as intelligent, and I am religious. I'd like to gain some insight into exactly what kind of serious cherry picking I'm doing. Could you provide some examples of what you had in mind when you wrote your comment?

I have a hard time understanding how someone can get a degree in religion without noticing how unfalsifiable most religions are.

I'd also be interested to hear what great new evidence has arisen since the 19th century that makes religion so foolish. Take Maxwell for example. He knew about the age of the Earth and recognized the validity of Darwin's theory of evolution. Yet he was by all accounts a very religious man.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#109

Post by svskeptic »

tntn wrote: post #108
bleachedsleet wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...and flat earth theory also has a lot in common with religion. I'm sorry, but it is impossible to be a truly intelligent person that also believes in any religion without serious cherry picking or psychological compartmentalization. I say this as someone that loves studying religion (I have a degree in it), but I study it as an artform of human expression or an oddity that once was, not as a serious pursuit of self…

I like to think of myself as intelligent, and I am religious. I'd like to gain some insight into exactly what kind of serious cherry picking I'm doing. Could you provide some examples of what you had in mind when you wrote your comment? I have a hard time understanding how someone can get a degree in religion without noticing how unfalsifiable most religions are. I'd also be interested to hear what great new evidence…

Lets start with why you think the particular religion you practice is the one?

If you think, all are the same, then you are now moving towards existence of a superior being and possibly creationism.

Re: Arctic temperatures soar 25 degrees above normal in the dead of winter

#110

Post by api »

toasterlovin wrote: post #92
microtonal wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are also simple things that one can do, that have an impact. For example, one could go on holiday to a local destination rather than flying half the world. Or you could cycle to work rather than traveling by car every day. (Sure, in the grand scheme of things, these will make small differences, but we have to cut our use of fossil fuel everywhere.)

I think this advice can be simplified greatly: reduce your expenditures. If you're spending less money, then you are consuming a smaller share of the world's bounty.

If you save that money instead it goes into a pool that is invested in things that then go and spend it elsewhere.
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