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Open Source Color Management Is Broken

lieberbiber.de

101–110 of 129 posts

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your point that I should get off my ass and do it instead of complaining? Or is your point that it's substantially more complicated than it appears, and I'd know that if I tried doing it myself?

Both points are likely applicable. :) However I think complaining about open source software has its place. Sometimes the developer has never thought of adding the feature that the end user can't get along without.

[deleted]

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you created it, cause if not then that might explain why what you want in detail doesn't exist.

Is your point that I should get off my ass and do it instead of complaining? Or is your point that it's substantially more complicated than it appears, and I'd know that if I tried doing it myself?

Yeah... I think both are applicable, but if you really want something done then you do it yourself or pay someone to help do it, especially for open source. It sounds like have a descent idea of where to start. I'd go find some kernel developers working on the underlying components, and offer to pay them or see if they have recommendations of people to get the work done.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the content is not in sRGB, don't you need to actually know the contents color profile in order to convert it to sRGB? How does the monitor profile matter at this point? (not challenging, just asking, I know next to nothing about color correction)

You don't want to convert to sRGB, you want to convert to the display device color space (which in professional displays is often larger than sRGB). Most desktop environments and applications assume that the source is sRGB, unless specifically tagged (in image metadata). So you have two points: source (image, video) and reproduction device (display, printer etc). And you convert colors from the former to the later. s…

Does the software know how to bypass the LUT, or do you in effect get a double conversion?

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#104
post #76

The complaints in this article appear to be regarding OS-controlled lut adjustments, i.e. via special X11 features. I've used color calibrated monitors on linux in color-sensitive industries with hundreds or even thousands of artist seats (including film, animation, vfx, real-time, etc.) and the monitor has always been calibrated via the physical menus/buttons on the bezel and not a software/OS monitor-specific lut a…

That would seem to be the only sane way, as anything else requires all the pieces end-to-end to be working properly in perfect harmony.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#105
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apply hasn't cared about ColorSync for years. Every release they break something.

To be fair, the pro market doesn't care about ColorSync. If you need color accuracy then you're calibrating your monitor hardware.

Everyone needs to characterize (not “calibrate”; that term is highly misleading) their display. The question is just whether you keep the characterization provided by the manufacturer, or measure the display yourself using a hardware device. Either way, the result is a display “profile”, which is basically a lookup table used by software to map color coordinates so that they will appear as expected on the display.

People using Macs certainly do care about ColorSync. That’s the name of the software which uses the display characterization to keep colors looking as expected throughout the operating system and most applications.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. An Eizo EX3 sells for 85 bucks here, a Spyder 5 for 95. A ColorHug2 amounts to 115. Since the ColorHug2 doesn't include the actual calibration software, it is equal to the EX3. Paying 35% more just for the "Open Hardware" label and then not being able to reap the expected benefits (better support etc.) doesn't sound like a good deal.

It is. Better support? Open Hardware means Open Hardware, and nothing more - you get the access to the schematics, documentation, sometimes also right to produce similar devices by yourself. You can expect greater hackability, definitely, but "Open Hardware" sticker means nothing in terms of support or reliability. It might be better, it might be worse, you can't tell. The price in such projects is directly related t…

This is one of the more important comments here, imo. Open hardware != free software. As someone who's been in the unfortunate position of having to work with locked down chips on many occasions, just simply having access to proper documentation is awesome. It can take a lot of work and dedication to interface with open hardware, but we all benefit when the fruits of that labor are shared. This is a struggle we should all be willing to undertake.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#107
Is there anyway to display something in Linux without any color management? Can you access the buffer that gets read directly to the monitor?

I've wanted to know whether two colors I'm displaying actually get distinguished by the monitor or if the LIST maps then to the same output value.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#108
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree, the entire visual effects industry, including their color departments, run on linux. Baselight and Resolve, are the two most common color correction programs in the industry, baselight exclusively runs on linux, and the big color companies (company 3, efilm, technicolor) all run resolve on linux. Coloring is done either on projectors, or broadcast monitors (something like a sony PVMA250 on the low end…

Do you by any chance have some links where I can read more about Linux as a front-end system in the film/graphics industry? This is field of work in which I would never have guessed Linux to be strong.

Pretty much (there's a bit of Windows at the smaller places) all the big VFX studios (ILM, SPI, Weta, Framestore, MPC, DNeg) are running Linux for almost everything involving content creation, using apps like Maya, Nuke (for compositing), Katana, Houdini, etc.

There are exceptions - some apps (ZBrush) don't run on Linux, so there are Windows machines around, but in general >= 95% of machines the artists and developers use are Linux at the big places.

And most of those apps use OpenColorIO as a framework for handling colourspaces.

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is your point that I should get off my ass and do it instead of complaining? Or is your point that it's substantially more complicated than it appears, and I'd know that if I tried doing it myself?

Yeah... I think both are applicable, but if you really want something done then you do it yourself or pay someone to help do it, especially for open source. It sounds like have a descent idea of where to start. I'd go find some kernel developers working on the underlying components, and offer to pay them or see if they have recommendations of people to get the work done.

In doing some searches on the subject this [1] came up. So there seems to already be movement on this front, and it's possible my knowledge of the current situation is stale.

[1] https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/intel-gfx/2015-Septem...

Re: Open Source Color Management Is Broken

#110
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the pro market doesn't care about ColorSync. If you need color accuracy then you're calibrating your monitor hardware.

Everyone needs to characterize (not “calibrate”; that term is highly misleading) their display. The question is just whether you keep the characterization provided by the manufacturer, or measure the display yourself using a hardware device. Either way, the result is a display “profile”, which is basically a lookup table used by software to map color coordinates so that they will appear as expected on the display. Pe…

In many professional environments the preferred route is to use specialist hardware to send an RGB signal at a high bit rate and do any colour transformation in the monitor hardware.

Using LUTs either at the application or OS level to adjust colour information is a big no-no, although that doesn't stop some people from doing it. You simply don't want to change your colour space[1] until you absolutely have to.

The point of calibrating your monitor (which is a hardware + firmware level problem) is to see how your RGB image will look on a colour space restricted piece of hardware (for example in video this is often 12-bit RGB --> Rec709).

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_space

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