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Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

bbc.com

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Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#101

Post by nekopa »

michaelbrooks wrote: post #85
CaliforniaKarl wrote: post #64

I am completely fine with this. The entire question of "How does a web site providing content 'for free' make money?" still seems to be in flux. Yes, people might push for some sort of micropayments thing, and The Guardian is making their method work, but I don't know if that's the exception or the rule. At least, not right now. Given the choice, I prefer a background miner over ads. Even on a laptop that's running o…

It wouldn't be so bad if Salon were using 5 or 10% of your CPU, but they are pushing it to 100%. Check out the discussion on r/BATProject[0] which is apart of the Brave browser. Brave is actually fighting the mining situation whilst also trying to help publishers and creators gain money. Brave are actively blocking ads and background miners, but they offer verified publishers and creators to be donated Basic Attentio…

For some reason this reminds me of that episode of Black Mirror where you had to pedal a bike or watch ads to get tokens.

Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#102

Post by Nursie »

mikekchar wrote: post #14
Nursie wrote: post #10

If this is done without explicit permission from the user, I can see it being some sort of hacking offence. So yes, I run adblockers. I will also run coinblockers. You're not going to be mining on my laptop processor and battery. Not yours. If you don't want me reading your stuff for free (which is perfectly reasonable!) then block me, instruct your server not to send content on those terms. I'm happy with that. But…

Out of curiosity... Rather than blocking ads, why not block sites that have ads? This way you comply with their implicit wish not to have you read their content without some sort of monetary return.

>> This way you comply with their implicit wish not to have you read their content without some sort of monetary return.

I make no promises about the way I'm going to render your site when I request data. I'm just requesting some data from the server.

I might be reading it in lynx, or over a slow connection with images turned off, or on an ancient browser, or whatever.

I prefer explicit to implicit - if you wish to enforce my rendering method, you shouldn't give me the data. I would even be happy with sending a flag in my request - XWillNotRender or whatever, so that you can filter me out easily if you wish. But once I have the data my device can show it to me however I wish.

Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#103

Post by sudhirj »

abusoufiyan wrote: post #83
sudhirj wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CoinHive has assumed that all instances of sites directly using the CoinHive software have been or are going to be blocked, and so have deprecated direct use of the CoinHive JS. Authedmine.com is now the official way to do things, and it operates only with consent.

Why make that assumption and leave users without blockers out to dry? Why not just halt all payouts to the old software and only pay out to versions which are using the Authedmine.com version? Why not do KYC on people who have a very high likelihood of using your software to violate the law? Salon is the kind of magazine which will call (justly) for corporate responsibility in all sorts of industries, but when it com…

But isn't it a dangerous road where we hold the makers of software responsible for nefarious uses? Paypal does a lot of this kind of fraud detection and prevention, and we all lambast them for it.

Halting payouts to those using the old software leaves legitimate users out to dry as well - whatever they do, someone is going to be miffed. I assume there will be a point in the future when they do refuse service to all the old API endpoints, but they can't rush that.

Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#104

Post by Nursie »

shoo wrote: post #39
Nursie wrote: post #10

If this is done without explicit permission from the user, I can see it being some sort of hacking offence. So yes, I run adblockers. I will also run coinblockers. You're not going to be mining on my laptop processor and battery. Not yours. If you don't want me reading your stuff for free (which is perfectly reasonable!) then block me, instruct your server not to send content on those terms. I'm happy with that. But…

> If this is done without explicit permission from the user, I can see it being some sort of hacking offence. When ads are enabled, your browser is sometimes executing javascript to conduct part of some ad-auction thing to figure out which is the best ad to show you (i don't work in ad-tech, so this is probably 60% incorrect, but you get the idea). I don't fundamentally see the difference between a website running un…

>> I don't fundamentally see the difference between a website running unsolicited mining crapware in your browser versus unsolicited adtech crapware.

Misuse of computer resources IMHO, no different to any other sort of code running on someone's machine with authorisation. We'd call this hacking in different circumstances.

I don't like the whole ad-auction-crapware thing, obviously, but it seems like it's a different thing to actually start using my hardware for your own calculations, using significant resources, without my explicit consent.

I'm sure salon aren't doing this, but I know I've stumbled across quite a few sites that do.

-- edit -- this just sparked something in my brain. Imagine Amazon Lambda but executed in the browser, by site visitors just like this...

Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#105

Post by realitycheck_13 »

The web is open and free because ads made it possible when the internet was first evolving. You only understand the internet as “free” because someone else was footing the bill to begin with. Ads can no longer support an open web as you once knew it. So, the web closes down (publishers gating their content - subscriptions) one by one and what do you end up with? A closed web. Plain and simple. Those who feel the web is “free” are under an illusion becaue they know and knew of nothing different. These people are ignorant and the ignorance is what is actually causing the web to close down faster. The more ignorance the faster it closes. I’m not saying ads and mining are great ways to pay the toll but it’s the only options since I don’t see any user here writing checks to websites out of good will. Salon at least is trying to keep the web “open” by giving options - and by the way, when did an option, in your control, ever offend you. Offended? Fine you don’t have to opt in. That’s like saying your pissed of because the restaurant accepts discover card when you only chose to carry Amex or cash.

There are a lot of people here who just don’t know what they are talking about and unfortunately they’ll never know who they are because they are always right. That’s fine because that’s the way the world works unfortunately and it’s human nature but a little honest research would do the greater community as a whole a great deal of good.

Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#106

Post by realitycheck_13 »

grx wrote: post #33

Prime example of failed business models and their desperate attempts to survive. I'm really disappointed about how online publishers handle the decline of ad revenue. Of course my ad-blocker will also block your miner script, what do you think how this works? And better yet, integrating external third-party JavaScript into your website screams for abuse by attackers. Someone could just change the wallet address the s…

One cannot change wallet id just from scraping the JS on a website. #research

Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#107

Post by realitycheck_13 »

MereInterest wrote: post #41
TekMol wrote: post #30

Isn't that a good thing? Imagine you have a little widget in your browser that displays something like '50%' which means you constantly use 50% of one core to mine a cryptocurrency for the page you are currently looking at. And in return you get an ad free web. I think that would be way better then the web as we know it.

Absolutely not. Wasting battery power to let somebody else buy into a pyramid scheme is not my idea of a solution.

One man’s trash is another mans treasure. In this case it’s not even trash (power). If it has value to someone else why dismiss it as a barter tool for you?

Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#108

Post by realitycheck_13 »

staticassertion wrote: post #77
abusoufiyan wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A coin being mined is controlled, handled entirely by first party, provides no incentive for tracking, etc. Yeah, also a haven for hackers and malicious actors... EDIT: I guess you weren't aware. CoinHive doesn't track the users who sign up for the service. It doesn't collect any information except email address. So malicious actors can easily sign up for the service and deliver the javascript through an XSS vulnera…

In what way? I consider this a security win. Instead of a third party delivering unknown, unscreened content (ads), I get a mining script directly from the site that I'm visiting.

That’s all true.

Re: Salon magazine mines crypto-cash with readers' PCs

#109

Post by realitycheck_13 »

la_oveja wrote: post #87
TeMPOraL wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Monero itself is worthless for Salon until they exchange it to USD, either directly or through a chain of other cryptocurrencies. Either way, for them to get the USD, some schmuck somewhere needs to buy the coin.

Like any coin, if the others dont see value on it, it's worthless.

But last I checked people do value it. So what are you talking about?
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