Google and Facebook are watching our every move online • Hacker News Board

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#101

Post by sumeno » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:21 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #91

ucaetano wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ultimately the problem is that their incentives aren't really aligned with yours. They're only incentivized to do the absolute minimum it takes to keep you around. As they control more and more of your world, they've increased your cost to leave and they can do even less to benefit you explcitly." Are you criticizing Google or companies in general? Because your criticism applies to any company in the world. > I like…

I prefer companies whose products and services I pay for directly. They're incentivized to keep me happy and paying. The more they invest in me, the more attractive they become to me and the more I may be willing to pay. Google and FB invest more and more in their ad business and can let the consumer products slide for a very long time in a way that would never fly if they charged real money and didn't have ad revenu…

You can opt out of Google ad targeting and general tracking for free

https://myaccount.google.com/u/1/privacy

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#102

Post by barrkel » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:22 PM UTC

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

I don't want all my eggs in one basket. I don't mind using search and email, but I disable all the analytics and tracking. Basically, if I'm on a Google site, that's fine; if I'm elsewhere on the web, it's not. Similarly for Firefox on Android, to the extent I'm able.

I block everything to do with Facebook every which way on my primary browser.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#103

Post by dnate » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

fwdpropaganda wrote: post #94

Zhyl wrote: post #2

I read the opening paragraph and thought 'wow, this guy has clearly just taken the release statement from Duckduckgo's privacy app announcement (or possibly their much-upvoted AMA) and just copied and pasted some statistics.' Then I saw the author.

Well spotted, very funny. Speaking of which, I recently moved to DDG and couldn't be happier. Frankly the only thing I don't like about DDG is the name.

yes, DDG has been nothing bu bliss lately. I did 99% of my master thesis research on there. And the other 1% I went to google for usually didn't turn up anything useful either.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#104

Post by rhizome » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:23 PM UTC

linsomniac wrote: post #56

I feel like I'm in the minority, but I'm mostly ok with Google. I feel like they are good stewards of my data (encrypting even internal traffic, severe restrictions on who can get access to my data, doing useful things with that data). I believe Facebook has similar policies in place. I think their biggest sins are just being big. It makes them a larger target (which probably necessitates them taking extreme protecti…

severe restrictions on who can get access to my data

Are you sure about this, or are you limiting "who" to people you already know and/or regularly interact with?

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#105

Post by Slansitartop » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

sumeno wrote: post #101

ryanianian wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer companies whose products and services I pay for directly. They're incentivized to keep me happy and paying. The more they invest in me, the more attractive they become to me and the more I may be willing to pay. Google and FB invest more and more in their ad business and can let the consumer products slide for a very long time in a way that would never fly if they charged real money and didn't have ad revenu…

You can opt out of Google ad targeting and general tracking for free https://myaccount.google.com/u/1/privacy

I'm not sure if you really can. Yes, I know you can opt out of the more open parts of it, like the web history they show you, but I'm skeptical that they aren't still doing stuff behind the scenes.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#106

Post by ucaetano » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:24 PM UTC

ryanianian wrote: post #91

ucaetano wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Ultimately the problem is that their incentives aren't really aligned with yours. They're only incentivized to do the absolute minimum it takes to keep you around. As they control more and more of your world, they've increased your cost to leave and they can do even less to benefit you explcitly." Are you criticizing Google or companies in general? Because your criticism applies to any company in the world. > I like…

I prefer companies whose products and services I pay for directly. They're incentivized to keep me happy and paying. The more they invest in me, the more attractive they become to me and the more I may be willing to pay. Google and FB invest more and more in their ad business and can let the consumer products slide for a very long time in a way that would never fly if they charged real money and didn't have ad revenu…

> I prefer companies whose products and services I pay for directly.

Then pay for it, stop using free services.

> I don't think corp gsuite lets you opt out of ad targeting and general tracking (I could be wrong).

AFAIK it doesn't use any info from the services you pay for to target you.

But remember, ads on websites aren't a form of paying for Google's services, but for the website content.

Do you read Ars Technica? Instead of seeing the ads you just subscribe to them. Read news online freely? Stop and pay for a few newspapers and only read them.

People knowingly choose free services that come with the tradeoff of ad targeting. That's how those services are paid. Using those services is your choice.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#107

Post by rhizome » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:30 PM UTC

resu_nimda wrote: post #84

rhizome wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it’s worth asking what impact they’ve really had on this basic facet of life Absolutely zero, and have arguably made it worse.

Yes, I am asking what those arguments are. Keeping in mind that “worse” is a relative term, i.e. it needs to be demonstrated how it was better at some other time, which the article seems to assume a priori.

All of the things you mention can happen more efficiently. There is no evidence that a wider availability of information reduces e.g. white supremacy, and in fact there is evidence[1] that it increases stridency. The increased availability of information is at least as likely to harden bubbles than it is to pop them, and while it's a necessary precursor to opening minds, it's not sufficient to do so on its own.

1. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Backfire_effect

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#108

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:30 PM UTC

Y_Y wrote: post #95

maxxxxx wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The need for exponential growth will force all big players into making more money and doing shadier things more and more. I am especially concerned about Google and Facebook since they haven't figured any way for making for making money other than selling ads. Apple and MS at least have products they sell. I think we really should start making it difficult for companies to grow beyond a certain size. I think they are…

I think this is an excellent idea. Once a company grows beyond a certain market share/ market cap it gets split down the middle. Thus kind of happened in an ad-hoc way before, e.g. Bell. The only trouble is these mega companies have lots of clout and a strong self preservation instinct.

I would prefer if there was a way to do this with taxation or similar. So from a certain size on it would be more expensive to do business. I think this would be more gradual than a hard split.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#109

Post by wilsonnb » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:34 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #90

ams6110 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies that grow beyond a certain size become laden with inertia and overhead. Smaller companies can come along and disrupt them. Facebook did this to MySpace. Someone will do it to Facebook, eventually.

Eventually someone will disrupt them. But there will be a long time span before that where they can compensate for their lack of innovation by buying out possible competition with a lot of money.

There's also the possibility that they just don't get disrupted. The entire computer industry is less than 100 years old. Who knows if the next 100 years will be anything like the last 70.

Of course, there might be a long history of larger companies getting disrupted by smaller companies outside of the tech industry, which would be much more compelling evidence than MySpace losing to Facebook, IBM losing the PC market to Microsoft, Microsoft losing mobile phones to Apple/Google, etc.

I am not willing to make a bet as to whether or not we will still be talking about Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Google, or Facebook 25, 50, or 100 years from now.

Re: Google and Facebook are watching our every move online

#110

Post by maxxxxx » Wed, Jan 31, 2018, 7:38 PM UTC

wilsonnb wrote: post #109

maxxxxx wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eventually someone will disrupt them. But there will be a long time span before that where they can compensate for their lack of innovation by buying out possible competition with a lot of money.

There's also the possibility that they just don't get disrupted. The entire computer industry is less than 100 years old. Who knows if the next 100 years will be anything like the last 70. Of course, there might be a long history of larger companies getting disrupted by smaller companies outside of the tech industry, which would be much more compelling evidence than MySpace losing to Facebook, IBM losing the PC marke…

I wonder how things would have worked with Microsoft if they hadn't got into trouble with governments in the US and Europe in 2000. There may be no Apple today and the internet may be their network.