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ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

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Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#101

Post by killbot5000 »

joering2 wrote: post #95
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license plate cameras are actually a special case. If you don't like most types of surveillance there are a lot of countermeasures a concerned party can use. Run your own servers, use encryption, etc. The problem with license plates is that the equivalent thing is to obscure your license plate, which is prohibited by law. So it's not just that the government is collecting publicly available information, it's that…

Obscuring license plate might be prohibited by law, but so far I been pulled over twice for not having license plate AT ALL. Twice got ticket to show up at court, twice case was dismissed because cop did not show up. I don't think there is law for not having a license plate. License plate are only required in case you commit a crime or break the law using your vehicle so identifying you is required. I was ready to ar…

It's well within the rights of a state to regulate the vehicles that operate on its roads. Those regulations may (and do) include having a visible license plate with up to date registration stickers.

You are free to drive unregistered vehicles on private land.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#102

Post by awakeasleep »

mschuster91 wrote: post #6

Yet another piece of evidence that the US is turning into an authoritarian state - as, to be fair, others do too (especially China!), but the US have the unique advantage of being the technologically most advanced civilization. In earlier times, when situations got too authoritarian, there were rebellions and revolution. With the level of militarization in police and military and the abilities made possible by today'…

one lesson can be drawn from Solzhenitsyn'a Gulag Archipelago. he talks about how the number of people to be dealt with vastly outnumbers the police state's employees.

Therefore if everyone fights back when "they" come for you, the outcome for society is positive, even if hopeless for individuals. The insane gun ownership in this country could be a benefit. Sure, you're not going to beat the army, but if every 10 people to be liquidated take out one secret police guy, then the civilian population as a whole will be safe. This assumes the army is distracted with a war somewhere, which seems likely to me.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#103

Post by estebank »

dredmorbius wrote: post #73
dsfyu404ed wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and automated license plate tracking is pretty darn common across all EU countries yet no one here yells Stasi about this. A huge chunk of Europe doesn't use driving as their primary means of transportation.

Are those alternative modes of transportation subject to tracking? E.g., electronic transit tickets or the like?

In London and Amsterdam you have the equivalent to the Bay Area's Clipper card with can be tracked. In Paris and surrounding areas you use paper tickets with a magnetic strip that has a given amount of trips (1/10/etc.). There the only tracking you can do is on aggregate, without ways to deanonymize people other than facial recognition on CCTV feeds and your phone's wireless signals.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#104

Post by callumjones »

JBlue42 wrote: post #90
jmaygarden wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Title issues can be... interesting. I've had major headaches trying to title a boat purchased in a state that doesn't have boat titles in a state that requires them for registration. Eventually, you can lay everything out before a judge/magistrate, and they can rule that your vehicle indeed exists and belongs to you.

Don't want to be that guy, but I have read where blockchain might make this easier in the future. I'm sure given the money hose that someone is trying to work on this.

A database can also do this.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#105

Post by azernik »

Clubber wrote: post #67
kd5bjo wrote: post #41

Wasn't there a Supreme Court case a while ago that ruled it illegal for the government to put a tracking device on your car? Given this recognition technology, could someone challenge the visible license plate requirement as an illegal tracking device?

Plate scanning is against the spirit of the law; it's a workaround for not being able to place a tracking device on your car. Unfortunately, since your car is in a public place, and your plates are in the open, I don't think place scanning will be ruled unconstitutional. Of course congress could always pass a law making it illegal, but both our major parties have authoritarian with regards to privacy.

The Supreme Court actually has in the past ruled that a technology that is cheap and can be applied without public knowledge is constitutionally different from direct observation. See e.g. United States v. Jones, which ruled that a GPS device placed under a valid warrant could not be used to continue tracking a person outside of the scope of the warrant.

"Deputy Solicitor General Michael Dreeben[15] began his argument for the United States by noting that information revealed to the world (i.e. movement on a public road) is not protected by the Fourth Amendment.[16] Dreeben cited United States v. Knotts as an example where police were allowed to use a device known as a "beeper" that allows the tracking of a car from a short distance away.[16] Chief Justice Roberts distinguished the current case from Knotts, saying that using a beeper still took "a lot of work" whereas a GPS device allows the police to "sit back in the station ... and push a button whenever they want to find out where the car is."[17]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Jones_(2012)

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#106

Post by JBlue42 »

callumjones wrote: post #104
JBlue42 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't want to be that guy, but I have read where blockchain might make this easier in the future. I'm sure given the money hose that someone is trying to work on this.

A database can also do this.

True. It's odd that titles of cars, boats, etc. aren't already in one but it seems laws vary by state.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#107

Post by MAGZine »

ams6110 wrote: post #39
jermaustin1 wrote: post #37

One of my clients does license plate reading and tracking. They have hundreds of tiny customers, and a handful of VERY LARGER customers, so I can say with 100% certainty, there are hundreds of agencies across the USA already doing this. For fun, I tracked my rental car from Georgia to Texas after a vacation a few months back to see how often I hit one of my client's customer's cameras. It was a lot. I saw myself hit…

IIRC there's an episode of Jay Leno's Garage that features a cop with a license plate reader. He can sit on the side of the road and every car that passes is scanned and checked for warrants. The answer comes back about as quickly as the speed reading on a radar gun. What they don't tell you is that all those plate numbers are going into a database, time- and location-stamped.

In Saskatchewan, Canada, they no longer require yearly insurance stickers on plates because the information is automatically checked by plate scanners on cop cars (to the best of my knowledge).

The officer will still require proof of registration when pulled over.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#108

Post by monocasa »

joering2 wrote: post #95
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The license plate cameras are actually a special case. If you don't like most types of surveillance there are a lot of countermeasures a concerned party can use. Run your own servers, use encryption, etc. The problem with license plates is that the equivalent thing is to obscure your license plate, which is prohibited by law. So it's not just that the government is collecting publicly available information, it's that…

Obscuring license plate might be prohibited by law, but so far I been pulled over twice for not having license plate AT ALL. Twice got ticket to show up at court, twice case was dismissed because cop did not show up. I don't think there is law for not having a license plate. License plate are only required in case you commit a crime or break the law using your vehicle so identifying you is required. I was ready to ar…

Out here they make you come in twice if you're going to fight a ticket. The second time is so they can schedule the cop, and they come in on every fought ticket.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#109

Post by DrScump »

Clubber wrote: post #65
d--b wrote: post #62

Anyone care to comment on the legality of the whole thing? Why are people allowed to snap pictures of my car and store them in a database? Do roads come with Terms of Service these days?

In the US, anything you do in a public place is considered fair game. The inside of your car does require consent, a warrant, or probable cause.

... except for objects in plain view.

Re: ICE is about to start tracking license plates across the US

#110

Post by fyfy18 »

MAGZine wrote: post #107
ams6110 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC there's an episode of Jay Leno's Garage that features a cop with a license plate reader. He can sit on the side of the road and every car that passes is scanned and checked for warrants. The answer comes back about as quickly as the speed reading on a radar gun. What they don't tell you is that all those plate numbers are going into a database, time- and location-stamped.

In Saskatchewan, Canada, they no longer require yearly insurance stickers on plates because the information is automatically checked by plate scanners on cop cars (to the best of my knowledge). The officer will still require proof of registration when pulled over.

Same with road tax in the U.K. since 2014.

The government used this as an opportunity to start enforcing the rule that vehicle excise duty is not transferable after a sale.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/abolition-of-paper-car-...

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