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Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

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Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#101
post #16

Patent in case anyone is curious https://encrypted.google.com/patents/US9817662

The usual advice w.r.t. patents is to not read them.

This may seem odd, but it can be the difference between knowing and unknowing infringement. Knowing infringement results in triple damages.

IANAL — just repeating consistent advice I have received

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a journalist writing the article, they want clickbait.

How can it be "clickbait" if it's in the article? What am I supposed to click on? Moreover, these are clearly marked quotes from the press release and the patent. Maybe this technology doesn't merit an article. But if it does, quoting the inventor is exactly what one expect from coverage. Note that it does invite scepticism, starting with "claims" in the headline. This gratuitous hatred of journalism is seriously get…

"clickbait" ~~ overboard sensationalism for the purposes of getting more attention than demure/traditional language would get. Even though it's in the article, this kind of language can be added by journalists to incentivize non-expert editors/publishers to publish their work versus others.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#103
post #26

> “In the current art, static error analysis requires significant mathematical analysis and cannot determine actual error in real time,” reads a section of the patent. “This work must be done by highly skilled mathematician programmers. Therefore, error analysis is only used for critical projects because of the greatly increased cost and time required. In contrast, the present invention provides error computation in…

I'm the main author of Arb. Note that it's an arbitrary-precision library. It's ~100x times slower than hardware floating-point because of using arbitrary-precision floating-point numbers implemented entirely in software. But if you have to do arbitrary-precision arithmetic to begin with, Arb's error tracking only adds negligible further overhead.

For machine precision, I believe ordinary interval arithmetic is the best way to go still. Unfortunately, this not only uses twice as much space; the time overhead can be enormous on current processors due switching rounding modes (there are proposed processor improvements that will alleviate this problem). However, the better interval libraries batch operations to minimize such overhead, and it's even possible to write kernel routines for things like matrix multiplication and FFT that run just as fast as the ordinary floating-point versions (if you sacrifice some tightness of the error bounds).

Regarding the article, using a more compact encoding for intervals is a fairly old idea and I'm not really sure what is novel here.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's a journalist writing the article, they want clickbait.

How can it be "clickbait" if it's in the article? What am I supposed to click on? Moreover, these are clearly marked quotes from the press release and the patent. Maybe this technology doesn't merit an article. But if it does, quoting the inventor is exactly what one expect from coverage. Note that it does invite scepticism, starting with "claims" in the headline. This gratuitous hatred of journalism is seriously get…

I agree with you. But there's more "clickbait" online than actual journalism. The saturation point has been reached for a lot of people and it's difficult for them to go back to respecting actual journalism or even distinguishing between the two.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#105
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it would be nice if someone, somewhere would do the right thing rather than whatever stupid nonsense benefits them personally the most.

Why is the right thing to do work for no compensation?

It is the right thing when you know that mathematics isn't patentable.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#106
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect him to work for free, but I do want Intel (and AMD, ARM, NVIDIA, TI, and anyone else who makes a floating point module) to go "sweet, thanks for the fix" as quickly and, almost more importantly, as collectively as possible. I want this guy to be compensated, but I'd prefer this guy be compensated in a manner that doesn't prevent third parties from fixing their hardware. In general, I think bounties are…

You're living in a fantasy world. You're looking at the status quo: some guy has invented a better floating point circuit, and you think there are two options. 1) The guy releases it to the public for general use, or 2) the guy patents it and holds a monopoly over its use. Obviously 1) is a greater public good than 2), but in reality these are not the only options. Here's some other realistic situations: 3) With no i…

Since it means getting less bits to store numbers in while also having to buy new hardware it doesn't seem like a very good solution though... and this is the patent system at its best apparently.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#107
post #26

> “In the current art, static error analysis requires significant mathematical analysis and cannot determine actual error in real time,” reads a section of the patent. “This work must be done by highly skilled mathematician programmers. Therefore, error analysis is only used for critical projects because of the greatly increased cost and time required. In contrast, the present invention provides error computation in…

Does anyone know a similar library for Rust?

It's a plain C library with an API very similar to GMP, so an option would be to wrap it from Rust, which should not be too difficult.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#108
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect him to work for free, but I do want Intel (and AMD, ARM, NVIDIA, TI, and anyone else who makes a floating point module) to go "sweet, thanks for the fix" as quickly and, almost more importantly, as collectively as possible. I want this guy to be compensated, but I'd prefer this guy be compensated in a manner that doesn't prevent third parties from fixing their hardware. In general, I think bounties are…

You're living in a fantasy world. You're looking at the status quo: some guy has invented a better floating point circuit, and you think there are two options. 1) The guy releases it to the public for general use, or 2) the guy patents it and holds a monopoly over its use. Obviously 1) is a greater public good than 2), but in reality these are not the only options. Here's some other realistic situations: 3) With no i…

The fantasy world is thinking that plucky little inventors creating something is the status quo. You think big companies like Intel don't have hundreds of people working on research full-time? That they freely lease all fruits of their research out to their competition rather than keeping a 20-year monopoly?

Patents, like any monopoly-granting device, benefit market incumbents much more than encourage new entrants

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#109
post #72
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you have a problem with patents, take it up with the legislature and the judicial system, but there's no reason to attack inventors for using a common legal system for protecting their intellectual property. Many people attack companies that use tax loopholes even though the government does "allow" these loopholes. So if one is opposed to something, but it is formally allowed, one should attack both sides: The p…

OK it sounds like you just want to have an internet argument to win internet points.

Don't be grumpy, the "it is technically allowed, therefore morally good"-argument is exceedingly weak, you shoudn't rely on it.

Re: Inventor Claims to Have Solved Floating Point Error Problem

#110
post #101
post #16

Patent in case anyone is curious https://encrypted.google.com/patents/US9817662

The usual advice w.r.t. patents is to not read them. This may seem odd, but it can be the difference between knowing and unknowing infringement. Knowing infringement results in triple damages. IANAL — just repeating consistent advice I have received

Unless you are planning to infringe (which is knowing in itself), this is very bizarre advice.

Reading a patent is more likely to make you not infringe upon it than to make you knowingly infringe upon it.

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