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Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#101

Post by rosser »

wongarsu wrote: post #95
wtallis wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you can always use DSP, cable, satellite, or even tether off a wireless if you don't like your home ISP. You can, if you're willing to accept a second-rate experience. But avoiding that is the whole point of net neutrality enforcement. ADSL is fundamentally unable to compete with DOCSIS or fiber; phone lines simply do not have sufficient bandwidth except over impractically short distances. Satellite can never o…

>Satellite can never offer acceptable latency. Satellite internet can offer very competitive latency, even though nobody is doing it so far. Small cubesats make lower orbits viable than what's currently used for satellite internet. At a low earth orbit of 400km (about the height of the ISS) you have a round trip time of just 3ms.

A theoretical alternative no-one is deploying is not an alternative.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#102

Post by drawkbox »

lr4444lr wrote: post #24

Am I the only person who thinks this whole approach to Net Neutrality is wrongly pursued through the FCC? Hear me out: if the networks don't access a physically limited resource like the RF spectrum and there isn't any censorship issue at stake, if the issue is truly differential access and usage due to oligopolistic limitation, isn't it for the FTC to intervene and bust up throttling and content blocks under restrai…

> if the networks don't access a physically limited resource like the RF spectrum

Broadband cable/fiber are a physically limited resource to the installed lines, yes they can be expanded but they are not typically. They are using the same lines ran in the 90s just DOCSIS to get more throughput and duplexing.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#103

Post by earenndil »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #39
drawkbox wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We should be breaking up monopolies and fining companies for unfair business practices . Ultimately in a perfect world if the agencies did as their mission statements said that would work. Monopolies need to be broken up and it can lead to good things, even just threatening Microsoft in the 90s led to Google, Apple, etc emergence. The problem is there has been zero sign that anyone is willing to go after monopolies…

Google is a global monopoly with it's hands in literally everything. A significant percentage of all inter-human communication, whether voice, internet, email, or messaging goes through Google. Possibly a majority. Regional/local monopolies are barely a concern worth mention in comparison. It's as if you're worried about the street dealer, and not worried about the head of the cartel.

> A significant percentage of all inter-human communication, whether voice, internet, email, or messaging goes through Google. Possibly a majority.

Can't be a majority. 2/3 of all network traffic is netflix.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#104

Post by earenndil »

maxlybbert wrote: post #9
benatkin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please rethink your position. There are many people who genuinely care about freedom and privacy working at Mozilla, while at Facebook, Google, and Apple, developers are selling us out every day.

I’m sure there are many people working at Facebook, Google and Apple who also genuinely care about freedom and privacy, while there are developers working at Mozilla who are just as willing to sell out users as anyone. It is true that Mozilla’s a nonprofit, but that doesn’t mean a lot to me when I try to guess what they’ll do in the future.

Bingo. All corporations have employees who have consumers' best interests at heart, and ones who don't. But a corporation exists as its own entity, and as an entity, google, facebook, and apple are against consumers, while mozilla is not.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#105

Post by earenndil »

NickHolt wrote: post #86
benatkin wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please rethink your position. There are many people who genuinely care about freedom and privacy working at Mozilla, while at Facebook, Google, and Apple, developers are selling us out every day.

> Apple Do you have specific examples? I don't usually see instances of Apple being more than price-gougers who do a decent job with privacy, and I'm interested in learning more.

They participated in PRISM[1], essentially an NSA-sponsored backdoor. For the most part, however, I agree that they're significantly better than most other giant corporations.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_(surveillance_program)

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#106

Post by earenndil »

neduma wrote: post #12
MollyR wrote: post #8

Why is the EFF not doing this instead of Mozilla ? Also I hope people still pursue municipal broadband, even with NN relying on faceless corporations seems like a bad idea.

Why Google/Netflix is not doing this instead of Mozilla?

Because it is in google/netflix's interest that net neutrality be abolished.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#107

Post by earenndil »

jopsen wrote: post #73
dragonwriter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One more vote in the senate and they can pass a bill to do this Which would matter a lot more if the US had a unicameral legislature with no executive veto; the Senate passing a CRA bill shooting down the FCC repeal of open internet rules would be a potent symbol, but have no binding effect since it has near zero chance in the House and, doesn't have the supermajority in either chamber needed to survive a near-cert…

> a near-certain Presidential veto Nothing is certain with Trump :) (we can think about whether that's good or bad)

True, but it's not unlikely he's sold out and thus won't sign it.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#108

Post by ocdtrekkie »

wtallis wrote: post #81
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can always use DSP, cable, satellite, or even tether off a wireless if you don't like your home ISP. Just like you can use alternative search engines and services (even FOSS self-hosted ones) if you don't like Google.

> But you can always use DSP, cable, satellite, or even tether off a wireless if you don't like your home ISP. You can, if you're willing to accept a second-rate experience. But avoiding that is the whole point of net neutrality enforcement. ADSL is fundamentally unable to compete with DOCSIS or fiber; phone lines simply do not have sufficient bandwidth except over impractically short distances. Satellite can never o…

The parent's point is that most alternatives to Google are a "second-rate experience". Almost nobody else has the data input to meet Google's offerings or compete on price. While the additional configuration options is a huge perk when getting rid of "we just do the best thing" products like Google and Apple, the alternatives are often a little dumber and cost a little more.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#109

Post by ocdtrekkie »

earenndil wrote: post #103
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is a global monopoly with it's hands in literally everything. A significant percentage of all inter-human communication, whether voice, internet, email, or messaging goes through Google. Possibly a majority. Regional/local monopolies are barely a concern worth mention in comparison. It's as if you're worried about the street dealer, and not worried about the head of the cartel.

> A significant percentage of all inter-human communication, whether voice, internet, email, or messaging goes through Google. Possibly a majority. Can't be a majority. 2/3 of all network traffic is netflix.

This is false. Netflix is like 30-35%, Google is closer to 40-45%. And that's US-specific numbers. Netflix is much less successful internationally than Google AFAIK.

Re: Mozilla Files Suit Against FCC to Protect Net Neutrality

#110

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Endy wrote: post #98
em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

gEvil Corp. Being a publically traded company, they have a duty to make money for their shareholders (I think but am not sure that duty might even be legal). If they were a Social Benefit Corp, then they wouldn't have such a duty, and so could choose to not make money when doing so would cause evil.

And because Alphabet Inc. (GOOGL) is trading at like $1K/share, it's out of most people's hands to even be eligible for the shareholders' meeting. On top of that, the float is almost 603 million shares, and ~81% are held by institutions rather than private investors. ~10% of the company is held by "people" rather than other companies - not enough to make a real change happen in terms of corporate policy. If you could…

Isn't nearly all voting power of Google still owned by the founding folks/executives? Non-voting shares has become a big thing these days to prevent shareholders from affecting company direction.
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