Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#101

Post by cromwellian » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:40 PM UTC

george3383 wrote: post #50

cromwellian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has a population of 1+ billion who are firewalled both by network access and by language. European citizens have better English proficiency and no great firewall, hence the transaction barriers to consuming global services are easier. I’m afraid you have to be globally competitive unless the EU wants a Great Firewall.

>European citizens have better English proficiency "better" yes, but not good enough to make American products successful unless they are translated

It's not a simple manner of translation, it has to be culturally localized. Burger King can't just sell beef burgers in India by translating their menu language.

It's a lot easier for a Western business to translate their UI to German or French, than it is to Chinese or Japanese. Input methods alone are an issue that calls for interaction UX to be designed differently.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#102

Post by george3383 » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:42 PM UTC

cromwellian wrote: post #101

george3383 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>European citizens have better English proficiency "better" yes, but not good enough to make American products successful unless they are translated

It's not a simple manner of translation, it has to be culturally localized. Burger King can't just sell beef burgers in India by translating their menu language. It's a lot easier for a Western business to translate their UI to German or French, than it is to Chinese or Japanese. Input methods alone are an issue that calls for interaction UX to be designed differently.

There are no big cultural differences between European countries that I'm aware of.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#103

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 9:52 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #100

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how could Apple accomplish that?

By threatening to pull manufacturing.

[deleted]

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#104

Post by remir » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:10 PM UTC

debt wrote: post #29

I absolutely believe Apple's foray into China is a huge misstep for the Apple brand. Imagine when all the censorship and surveillance and the actions taking with personal data start surfacing, they're going to very quickly try to get out. Apple pulling VPN apps off the App Store is just the beginning. It may be a big market, but I think Apple shouldn't be there under the Apple name, because stuff like this shows me t…

Shareholders demand growth and Apple entering China is a way for them to grow. If Cook says "fuck it, we pack our shit and leave China", the board will quickly replace him because there's simply too much money to be made in China for Apple.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#105

Post by dingdongding » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

This just shows to what extent Apple is willing to bend its rules for China. They're just too dependent on China. China has upper hand here. I've a feeling that one day China might ditch Apple.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#106

Post by samat » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:31 PM UTC

I am very concerned that now Apple will make exactly same thing with Russian accounts.

This link might come handy: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201389

All you need is a foreign credit/debit card.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#107

Post by tpush » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:33 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #74

MollyR wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow,I didn't think of that example. It's a pretty huge hypocrisy.

In both cases they’re complying with the laws. The data may be stored with a Chinese company but it’s still encrypted isn’t it? They can’t read it can they?

Third sentence from the artice: "They include a clause that both Apple and the Chinese firm will have access to all data stored on iCloud.".

If the Chinese firm couldn't read the data access would be pretty pointless me thinks.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#108

Post by samat » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:34 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #74

MollyR wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow,I didn't think of that example. It's a pretty huge hypocrisy.

In both cases they’re complying with the laws. The data may be stored with a Chinese company but it’s still encrypted isn’t it? They can’t read it can they?

Have a look at their recent whitepaper, most of it is not https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#109

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:39 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #90

stcredzero wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's exponentially more difficult for the Chinese government to wield data against me than it is for the British government, as I do not live somewhere where the Chinese government has any power over me. It depends mostly on the nature of the data, and how much interest they have in you. If the data is damning enough, and they would find value in using it against you, then the Chinese government is perfectly able to…

Right, but if you're not in China at all, the Chinese government don't care about you. So it's (in some respects) safer to have your data managed in a foreign country than in the country you live in, as a counterpoint to the claim that "it makes so much more sense that your data is subject to the law in the country you reside in".

> Right, but if you're not in China at all, the Chinese government don't care about you.

That’s ,at best, less than clear, considering the actions attributed to PLA Unit 61398.

Re: Apple: Chinese firm to operate China iCloud accounts

#110

Post by vatueil » Wed, Jan 10, 2018, 10:42 PM UTC

jstanley wrote: post #62

klodolph wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A counterpoint here: Consider American subpoenas, court order, FISA warrants and the like. Remember that FISA warrants are secret! Having the data managed by a US company has these consequences. Perhaps you trust the US government more than you trust the Chinese government... that is very reasonable, to be sure. But it makes so much more sense that your data is subject to the law in the country you reside in, rather…

In some respects I'd rather have my data managed by a Chinese company than a British one. It's exponentially more difficult for the Chinese government to wield data against me than it is for the British government, as I do not live somewhere where the Chinese government has any power over me.

Perhaps on an individual level it's true that moving accounts off-shore can be advantageous (although the flip side of ceding your data to a regime that isn't responsible to you in the slightest is that they have even less reason not to misuse it if it ever benefits them). But on a societal level if everyone followed this tactic we would all be worse off, especially if the foreign government is not a liberal democracy or otherwise at odds with your home country.