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Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

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Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#101

Post by bkjelden »

michaelbuckbee wrote: post #61
tbabb wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

20-25 years is at the limit of what I could imagine staying in one house with any certainty. How does the extra longevity justify the cost unless I plan to never ever move again?

It goes to the home's value (aka you'd get more when you sell it). I kind of think of it like brick. Brick has a much longer maintenance cycle than vinyl or wood siding.

The is true in theory, but in practice the housing market isn't 100% efficient.

You'll no doubt recoup some of your value, but not all of it.

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#102

Post by ajnin »

civilian wrote: post #94
webXL wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you come on. You are not giving me the money in my bank account just because you say I don't have to give it to you.

Dude I'm as libertarian as they come; taxation is theft. But you're doing stupid things with semantics here. The company has more money to operate with; we're just talking about this from a business-operation point of view.

I'm curious, as a libertarian, how do you come to the conclusion that private property, which is a political construct, is a good thing, while taxation, which is also a political construct, established by the same set of laws, is a bad thing (If judging by your description of one being "theft" of the other) ?

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#103

Post by civilian »

ajnin wrote: post #102
civilian wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude I'm as libertarian as they come; taxation is theft. But you're doing stupid things with semantics here. The company has more money to operate with; we're just talking about this from a business-operation point of view.

I'm curious, as a libertarian, how do you come to the conclusion that private property, which is a political construct, is a good thing, while taxation, which is also a political construct, established by the same set of laws, is a bad thing (If judging by your description of one being "theft" of the other) ?

I think that private property can be easily derived from individual rights. The right to control my own life, the right to do what I want, the right not to be interfered with. Those set a pretty strong precedent for private property. If I create something out of nothing, shouldn't I be able to keep that?

I could be down with taxation if someone actually offered me a contract to join the USA with all the provisions. But they didn't, they just implicitly assumed it, without my consent.

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#104

Post by ChuckMcM »

SQL2219 wrote: post #96

...Solar shingles will cost more than a conventional roof along with photovoltaic panels -- but not “wickedly so,” said Hugh Bromley, a New York-based Bloomberg New Energy Finance analyst. He estimates a Tesla roof would cost about $57,000 for a 2,000-square-foot house From where I sit that is wickedly more expensive. I had a new composite roof installed 2 years ago for $2,900

You need to add in 2000 sq ft of solar panels, mounted. As well.

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#105

Post by [deleted] »

SQL2219 wrote: post #96

...Solar shingles will cost more than a conventional roof along with photovoltaic panels -- but not “wickedly so,” said Hugh Bromley, a New York-based Bloomberg New Energy Finance analyst. He estimates a Tesla roof would cost about $57,000 for a 2,000-square-foot house From where I sit that is wickedly more expensive. I had a new composite roof installed 2 years ago for $2,900

[deleted]

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#106

Post by wav-part »

ajnin wrote: post #102
civilian wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude I'm as libertarian as they come; taxation is theft. But you're doing stupid things with semantics here. The company has more money to operate with; we're just talking about this from a business-operation point of view.

I'm curious, as a libertarian, how do you come to the conclusion that private property, which is a political construct, is a good thing, while taxation, which is also a political construct, established by the same set of laws, is a bad thing (If judging by your description of one being "theft" of the other) ?

Concept of private property is as old as civilisation. Whereas taxation (at current depth and scale) is barely 50yrs old and already showing cracks.

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#107

Post by dragonwriter »

wav-part wrote: post #106
ajnin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, as a libertarian, how do you come to the conclusion that private property, which is a political construct, is a good thing, while taxation, which is also a political construct, established by the same set of laws, is a bad thing (If judging by your description of one being "theft" of the other) ?

Concept of private property is as old as civilisation. Whereas taxation (at current depth and scale) is barely 50yrs old and already showing cracks.

Conversely, the concept of taxation is as old as civilization, and private property at current depth and scale is barely as old as the most recent extension of the rights associated with copyright in the DMCA, and already showing cracks.

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#108

Post by wav-part »

dragonwriter wrote: post #107
wav-part wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concept of private property is as old as civilisation. Whereas taxation (at current depth and scale) is barely 50yrs old and already showing cracks.

Conversely, the concept of taxation is as old as civilization, and private property at current depth and scale is barely as old as the most recent extension of the rights associated with copyright in the DMCA, and already showing cracks.

You are talking to a libertarian and you assumed a right granted by state is a private property. Why ?

The private property I referred is land right, which IS as old as civilisation and have been acceptable by most humans ever.

Since most democracies are less than 200yrs old, the taxation cannot have been as old as civilisation.

When 100 people form a camp, they implement property rights before taxation. Historically taxations have been imposed by distant rulers not socially decided at local level.

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#109

Post by mohaine »

Hasz wrote: post #55
michaelbuckbee wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like any sort of tech: the first version is too expensive and then the price drops some % every year until we all have "supercomputers" in our pockets. Plain Solar Panel (non roof) installation has gone from $52k to $20k in the last decade [1] which is craziness. The other aspect of this is longevity. Setting all solar power generation aspects aside an asphalt roof will generally last 20-25 years. Tesla roof til…

Moore's law is the exception, not the rule. Does Tesla have any sort of public lifetime estimates?

Actually, no. Moore's law is really a general trend that is apples to pretty much everything, just with different constants. As our knowledge and tech advances, everything gets cheaper and easier. This is also known as "Economies of Scale".

Re: Tesla's New York Gigafactory Kicks Off Solar Roof Production

#110

Post by ajnin »

wav-part wrote: post #106
ajnin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious, as a libertarian, how do you come to the conclusion that private property, which is a political construct, is a good thing, while taxation, which is also a political construct, established by the same set of laws, is a bad thing (If judging by your description of one being "theft" of the other) ?

Concept of private property is as old as civilisation. Whereas taxation (at current depth and scale) is barely 50yrs old and already showing cracks.

One of the oldest forms of writing that we know of, Babylonian tablets, are mostly about goods exchanges and paying taxes. I think that you assessment that taxation is a new thing is blatantly wrong.
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