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The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

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Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#101
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, and there are tons of research OSs. Most of them suffer from a lack of Hardware support. I'd be ready to switch to OpenBSD/Solaris/QNX/other fancy OS tomorrow if all my HW components were supported. I doubt anything non-Linux based is ever becoming popular within the next 100 years. ;)

They don't need to replace Linux in one big event. They'll probably test and safely move some working ideas to their production OSes (similarly as Span was introduced in .NET from Midori). There is also some effort in abstracting device drivers in Android (Project Treble) but how it could be used in Magenta is not clear. Personally I'd be really interested in seeing this OS deployed in production. I like Linux but it…

Sure, it could be a process and Project Treble goes in the right direction.

However it's insane if you consider how many device drivers there are for Windows and Linux. The large majority of Linux kernel code is drivers. When you consider that Linux still has problems to run on certain hardware, then the problem becomes more obvious.

My bet is, in case this ever becomes a success, then only for a subset of vendors that are willing to cooperate closely with Google. (Oh yeah, and everybody needs to throw away the old hardware.)

I wished efforts would instead go into improving Linux Kernel. It reminds me of Google saying that JavaScript is a complete dead end and must be replaced. So they created Dart which surely has a great design but nobody uses it - and JS is now better than ever.

Moreover it's a bit of a lame excuse that vendors don't update their Android modifications. It already start that Google doesn't manage to get their Linux kernel modifications into the mainline Kernel - almost violating OpenSource principles...

Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#102
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve been using Elementary for a year straight[1] and like it a lot, but I see it as Ubuntu with the “right” UX. (I also don’t see Linux developers flocking to it in droves, which is sad because it is a lot cleaner and easier to use than Gnome and KDE, IMHO, but then again Linux has always been more about diverging choices than unity—and I don’t mean the desktop environment here). The only thing Elementary needs to d…

I am so interested in this! Are you willing to answer some questions? 1. What hardware are you running? 2. Do you pay for apps? 3. Are you able to use this as your primary machine? 4. What kind of work do you do?

1. A C720 Chromebook and an i7 desktop that is also a KVM host. 2. No. There isn’t anything I’d consider worth paying for in the store right now. 3 & 4. I work on Azure solutions, so these are my Linux machines. I do a lot of work on them, but need Office and Windows for the corporate bits, so my main desktop machine is... a Mac, and I carry a Surface to customers.

Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe Google could do this. I keep seeing people day this, and yet: Is there any evidence at all that Google can pull off designing something like this?

I'd be more interested in why you think Google can't. They have some of the best OS developers working on it in addition to a small army of developers working on it day and night.

1. Google's only consumer OS is Android. Even after literally years of development it's still riddled with inconsistencies (visual and behaviour), performance issues, security issues etc.

2. It took them literally years to arrive at Material UI design, which is a vast sprawling document which is often internally inconsistent, and even Google can't adhere to it a lot of the time.

3. Their best customer-facing products have traditionally been third-party acquisitions (such as Docs). They have a very inconsistent approach to UI/UX across all of their products.

(I had more, but it's hard to concentrate on the first of January :) )

They can still pull it off, but it's definitely not a given.

Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#104
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more distros would start supplying packages for Pantheon. I'm not interested in a distro that forks Ubuntu LTS + specially patched packages (because Gnome3 refuses to merge changes that fix problems, but only really benefit non-Gnome3 desktops (completely against the spirit of open source and GNU + FDO)), but I would love it to be based on a distro that is kept up to date (such as Debian or Arch).

> because Gnome3 refuses to merge changes that fix problems, but only really benefit non-Gnome3 desktops (completely against the spirit of open source and GNU + FDO) This is actually what I most like about Google's OS initiative. The fact we'll have ONE and ONLY ONE desktop environment and all the political infighting of the last 30 years won't matter any more.

That's all great and all, but why pick Gnome3 to rally behind? I literally know no one that can stand that desktop environment, and it has become part of this weird systemd/pulseaudio cult that is slowly destroying any chance of moving forward and producing a modern desktop environment for Linux that average people will accept, due to a constant (and ignorant) political war against pretty much anyone else that isn't part of that particular groupthink.

The irony here, I think, is Pantheon actually completed this goal with a much smaller team, with no political bullshit, and is a clearly superior product.

By virtue of this fact, and by your reasoning, Gnome3 has no reason to continue to exist at all and should end development if, truly, Linux is meant to have a One True Desktop Environment (tm).

Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#105
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Linux distributors might be able to solve this. Obviously there are tons of Window managers and a dozen of consistent, working Desktop Environments. Ubuntu already made clear that they are moving away from X and moreover that a better UX on the WM part will be a priority. I use Linux again since this year after working almost only on OS X for 5 years or so. It has been more setup work than I wished but I'm really…

>Either they will support running Linux or Android drivers, or otherwise their system will be just useful for Marketing demos. Are you just saying that, or do you actually believe it? You think all of the phone vendors that write custom closed source drivers for Android will abandon Android if the core is no longer Linux? Seriously? And what, move to tizen? Windows phone? Be reasonable... Google can and will move to…

Ok yeah maybe I don't believe it. But then we have to throw away all other (incl older/non-Google partner) hardware to use this system. Could work, but not sure if the user really benefits of that in terms of freedom or garbage.

Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot more going on than they are publicly letting on. If the general public starts to believe that there is an Android successor in the works, many people will stop buying Android devices until further notice. This could be absolutely catastrophic for the Android device market. If I were Google, I would bury the name Fuchsia, call the thing Android 10, and let it be known that it's years out.

>If the general public starts to believe that there is an Android successor in the works, many people will stop buying Android devices until further notice. The bigger danger is the response by android developers. Will you invest in a soon-to-be-deprecated Android Native app written in a soon-to-be-deprecated API (because, at least according to the Internet rumors, Fuchsia will be using Dart instead of Java and will…

From what I understand, with Dart/Flutter you can write apps for Fuchsia, iOS and Android with the same codebase. I think this could be interesting for devs. If making Fuchsia apps is easier and more pleasant than making Android apps, developers will respond positively.

Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be more interested in why you think Google can't. They have some of the best OS developers working on it in addition to a small army of developers working on it day and night.

1. Google's only consumer OS is Android. Even after literally years of development it's still riddled with inconsistencies (visual and behaviour), performance issues, security issues etc. 2. It took them literally years to arrive at Material UI design, which is a vast sprawling document which is often internally inconsistent, and even Google can't adhere to it a lot of the time. 3. Their best customer-facing products…

>Google's only consumer OS is Android

And why exactly is ChromeOS not a consumer OS?

>Even after literally years of development it's still riddled with inconsistencies (visual and behaviour), performance issues, security issues etc.

You make it sound as if inconsistencies, performance and security issues are isolated to Android. Which is ridiculous considering the plethora of inconsistencies, performance issues and security exploits on other platforms. As for security issues, no Pixel has ever been hacked at a PwnToOwn event while iOS devices consistently are.

>It took them literally years to arrive at Material UI design, which is a vast sprawling document which is often internally inconsistent, and even Google can't adhere to it a lot of the time.

Have you looked at iOS recently? Apple doesn't even follow their own guidelines nor do the vast majority of the special snowflakes on the App store. And I won't even go into the disaster that is Metro/Modern or whatever they're calling it now on the Windows platform.

>Their best customer-facing products have traditionally been third-party acquisitions (such as Docs). They have a very inconsistent approach to UI/UX across all of their products.

Mac OS was a third party acquisition and iOS was created from that so you could make the argument that even iOS is the result of a third party acquisition. The fact is these products would never be as successful as they are today without the resources and money its taken to get them to this point.

>They can still pull it off, but it's definitely not a given.

It's not really a question of if they can pull it off, but rather when they'll pull it off. If nothing else Fuchsia will be the new OS used by Google internally replacing their current customized Linux distribution. And if that's the extent of Fuchsia's use then it'll still be considered a win, but that's not where it's going to end in my opinion. I see Fuchsia surpassing Linux in desktop OS market share rather quickly and eventually challenging Mac OS in the long term.

Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Google's only consumer OS is Android. Even after literally years of development it's still riddled with inconsistencies (visual and behaviour), performance issues, security issues etc. 2. It took them literally years to arrive at Material UI design, which is a vast sprawling document which is often internally inconsistent, and even Google can't adhere to it a lot of the time. 3. Their best customer-facing products…

>Google's only consumer OS is Android And why exactly is ChromeOS not a consumer OS? >Even after literally years of development it's still riddled with inconsistencies (visual and behaviour), performance issues, security issues etc. You make it sound as if inconsistencies, performance and security issues are isolated to Android. Which is ridiculous considering the plethora of inconsistencies, performance issues and s…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Re: The Pixelbook is being used to test Google's Fuchsia OS

#109
post #11
post #10

I wish Google was more outspoken about their plans for Fuchsia. So far, all we have is a lot of speculation.

I think they don't know themselves what will become of it. It's more a research project similarly to Midori.

Yes, this is more like it. Most likely it was someone's 20% project (if it still exists) and someone higher up the command saw some potential in it and gave them more resources. Google can afford it. At worst, it can fail, at best it can give Google a technologically superior OS. Plus, they can always use parts of it or lessons learned from it elsewhere.

There is also no reason they can't replace Linux underneath Chrome OS with new Foundations. After all Linux internals were never exposed to the consumers in Chrome OS. As long as they port Chrome, they should be able to do it at least theoretically. Same theory could apply to Android but that would be much harder to do I think.

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