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How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

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Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#101
post #90
post #84

One of the problems I've always had with patio11's advice is that the skills he brought to a job was something that could easily be measured, e.g. he mainly did sales funnel optimization so it was easy to see the before and after of the direct impact on the bottom line. As somebody who is a skilled backend developer the value I provide is not as measurable. How can I justify charging a large weekly rate, when almost…

Are you a consultant or freelancer currently? Have you tried doing this justification in the past and how has it gone? EDIT: length

I am a full time employee currently, but have done consulting on the side for $50-$100/hr several times. I've never tried to negotiate weekly rates because I've only been able to do ~10 hours of work a week on top of my full time job.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#102

Can someone explain to me why when paying weekly people would not turn the discussion on slashing the rate in contrast to paying hourly? I don't see the disconnect between the two and why it shouldn't be possible to also go "My rate is 100$, we need 40 hours, you can only pay 30, okay, what do we slash?" In fact, that is what I am doing right now.

People will compare hourly rates to people's salaries in a way that don't really compare weekly rates. $200/hr seems rediculously expensive to pay a dev. but a $8k/week will intuitively be compared to the value they get from the project, and 16k to increase wbesite traffic 30% seems like a steal.

What if it's not website traffic or ecom sales you are increasing? What if the payoff is 6 months down the road?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#103
post #101
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you a consultant or freelancer currently? Have you tried doing this justification in the past and how has it gone? EDIT: length

I am a full time employee currently, but have done consulting on the side for $50-$100/hr several times. I've never tried to negotiate weekly rates because I've only been able to do ~10 hours of work a week on top of my full time job.

Would you want to do more consulting?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#104

Consulting fees certainly make the work more attractive than it would otherwise be, and I have been tempted to go down this path before. That aside, part of me thinks that the culture around consulting is masking bigger problems. I've seen consultants being brought onto projects where the main development staff would've been better placed to do the work (more knowledge about the intricacies of a business, better awar…

In my case my company has a terrible product development process, and it’s a big reason why our app sucks, it doesn’t deliver the key value customers and the company need.

I have said as much to everyone up to the VP level, and provided detailed recommendations (I am a Sr Dev, but in prior jobs I successfully managed dev groups of 40+ people). The response I’ve gotten has been coaching on delivery (stop being so blunt) and crickets on any actual changes.

If a $30K a week consultant came in and made the same recommendations at VP level, they’d be prized for their directness, and people would be having fires lit under them to implement most of the changes. And the actual staff would benefit as much as the company.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#105
post #17

Step 1: Be popular/famous enough that people know your name. Step 2: Be good/accurate enough at opining in ways that make sense. Most people won't have either 1 or 2 going for them. There's one more thing - charging a lot is how to signal value, which is a a huge thing. I know a guy who used to manage an A-list rock band (everyone knows their songs) who went into consulting, and started out lowballing people, for $1k…

> Most people won't have either 1 or 2 going for them. Not at first, no, but even Patrick had to start at zero, right? It's true that there's a lot more personal branding and content marketing going on, but that doesn't mean a person can't execute a similar strategy and find success. It may not be as profitable as it once was, but it can be enough to relieve some financial stress.

Some actors grew up poor but I wouldn't go around telling poor people they can all become world-famous actors.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#106
post #95
post #84

One of the problems I've always had with patio11's advice is that the skills he brought to a job was something that could easily be measured, e.g. he mainly did sales funnel optimization so it was easy to see the before and after of the direct impact on the bottom line. As somebody who is a skilled backend developer the value I provide is not as measurable. How can I justify charging a large weekly rate, when almost…

I used to be a "skilled backend programmer" but now I "help entrepreneurs start their businesses." See the difference?

Are entrepreneurs that are starting their business really a niche that pays well? Seems like it wouldn't be. Seems like you get either "build me the next facebook for $500" or a lot of small business with a total budget of $5000.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#107

Consulting fees certainly make the work more attractive than it would otherwise be, and I have been tempted to go down this path before. That aside, part of me thinks that the culture around consulting is masking bigger problems. I've seen consultants being brought onto projects where the main development staff would've been better placed to do the work (more knowledge about the intricacies of a business, better awar…

In my case my company has a terrible product development process, and it’s a big reason why our app sucks, it doesn’t deliver the key value customers and the company need. I have said as much to everyone up to the VP level, and provided detailed recommendations (I am a Sr Dev, but in prior jobs I successfully managed dev groups of 40+ people). The response I’ve gotten has been coaching on delivery (stop being so blun…

Would this be a software consultant or a management consultant?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#108
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but the answer to this is almost always "network with people who will pay you to freelance." This assumes you already have the skills/knowledge worth paying a freelancer for.

Do you personally have the skills/knowledge worth paying for if you classified yourself as a freelancer?

Too broad of a question, in my opinion, but yes, I have successfully freelanced at various times and with various skills and knowledge used over the last 25 years. Each time it was knowing the person beforehand and being asked to perform consulting. Long ago it was through my parents' networks, and more recently through professional contacts.

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#109
post #58
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think this happens?

This has happened to me as well. It's because whoever hired the consultant hadn't forced anyone to do those tasks. It's their own fault really. I recently did some consulting for a Veeam configuration and it took a good 12 hours to get them to set me up a VPN and get access to all the servers I needed to review their setup. Should have been ready from the get-go.

Do you think they cared that you spent 12 hours on setup?

Re: How I went from programming to consulting (2012)

#110

Consulting fees certainly make the work more attractive than it would otherwise be, and I have been tempted to go down this path before. That aside, part of me thinks that the culture around consulting is masking bigger problems. I've seen consultants being brought onto projects where the main development staff would've been better placed to do the work (more knowledge about the intricacies of a business, better awar…

> but you've got to wonder what goes through the head of business owners who would rather pay high consultant fees than invest in extra staff and training for their in-house team, which is frequently better for the long term health of a company

For large companies, division managers are more concerned about short term goals, because that's usually what metrics are in place, but also potentially competitive landscape, etc.

Bringing in someone today who can get something done in, say, 4 months, vs going through a hiring process, or fighting to reprioritize existing projects/staff... that's a big headache. Throw a bit more money - often from a different budget than "payroll" - and 'solve' the problem.

I get your point, and am largely sympathetic to it. However, often, the people with the required skills don't want to work 24/7 for one singular employer. You lose a lot of freedom/flexibility, for starters. Often a pay cut vs 'consulting' rates. I've been out of traditional employment for so long, I'd probably not make a good employee anymore, and would have a hard time getting hired.

As an external consultant/expert on some things, you're also being paid for explicitly not being part of the 'problem'. You can ignore some of the politics that may have led to the situation you're trying to fix. The person cutting the check may be able to cut through some of the red tape and get stuff done quickly.

I've been an employee at places where it's taken a couple days just to get myself on a network and credentialed up. That's a pretty significant waste, but... amortized over the total employee cost, it doesn't seem to be seen as that big a deal.

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