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Google Maps' Moat

justinobeirne.com

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Re: Google Maps' Moat

#101

Post by on_and_off »

40acres wrote: post #4

What an incredible post. I just love this guys blog, I wonder how long it took to research all of this. As a side note this gives me great confidence that Waymo will come out of the self driving car race in pole position.

Yes !

Each time justin writes a blog post, I feel like a cartographer for a couple of minutes.

I love the attention he puts to the evolution of mapping services.

The only better thing would be the same blog as a post mortem from Google where they discuss the reasoning, design and tech behind these changes.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#102

Post by m3kw9 »

The direction capabilities is what makes me use google maps more, it’s just more reliable in general and gives better routes. Sometimes Apple would give these really dumb routes. I would say ‘why would you do that?’

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#103

Post by jdminhbg »

wutbrodo wrote: post #25

Is there a reason anyone uses Apple Maps, aside from wanting to avoid Google out of principle/privacy/monoculture concerns? To be clear, these are entirely legitimate reasons, but I was wondering if the product has any direct benefits for the user (which is a coherent subset of reasons given the modal users' level of concern about systemic issues). I'm not trying to randomly snipe at Apple here, I just know very litt…

Two reasons:

1. Google’s Material UI is a total dumpster fire and I use it only as a last resort.

2. Apple Maps integrates much better with everything else I’m using, so the experience is smoother (e.g., looking up an address on my laptop and then sending directions to my phone).

I keep Google Maps around as a backup, mostly for places of interest way out in the boonies, like hiking trailheads.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#104

Post by ghaff »

canoebuilder wrote: post #90
taneq wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why efforts based on exhaustive mapping make me nervous. Things change, sometimes rapidly. The vehicle should be using its maps as a general guide, not as some kind of ground truth.

The vehicle should be using its maps as a general guide, not as some kind of ground truth. Not to sound like a jerk, but I would be shocked if there were anyone working on this that was not pursuing things in this way. It just seems kind of obvious that you can't have some big hunk of metal rolling around, following some abstracted track from a map, without "looking" where it is going.

Cars obviously have sensors for real-time data capture. However, the question is how well they handle new signage/lights, road changes, construction, flooded lanes, etc. when those aren't in the database. It's fair to say that autonomous driving today is some point between "we run 100% off maps" and "we can handle things like a human could if we lost access to our maps." (And much closer to the former.)

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#105

Post by WillPostForFood »

turtlebits wrote: post #77
wutbrodo wrote: post #25

Is there a reason anyone uses Apple Maps, aside from wanting to avoid Google out of principle/privacy/monoculture concerns? To be clear, these are entirely legitimate reasons, but I was wondering if the product has any direct benefits for the user (which is a coherent subset of reasons given the modal users' level of concern about systemic issues). I'm not trying to randomly snipe at Apple here, I just know very litt…

Google maps absolutely obliterates my battery life (iPhone 6S+). Last time I travelled it I was down to 40% at noon.

I've had the same experience, but is it Maps, or the continual use of GPS?

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#106

Post by posixplz »

bobdole1234 wrote: post #99
kumarvvr wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With their cash pile, they could surely expand, considering the long term returns on such expansion of computing power. Maybe Apple just dosent see the need to improve or dosent see any revenue potential with Maps.

Apple is actually paying for Google's capacity. http://www.crn.com/news/cloud/300080062/cloud-makes-for-stra...

Apple's forte is not high-caliber software engineering, or scaling huge infrastructure, as is the case at AWS/GCP. Apple's track record in recent years is pretty shoddy, and downright embarrassing in the last several months.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#107

Post by stefanpie »

4684499 wrote: post #48

I can tell Google is pretty upset that they don't have real time cams everywhere.

But they do have Android and all the smartphones that use Android or have Google maps installed and those smartphones also probably have GPS recivers and accelerometers.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#108

Post by ClassyJacket »

It's surprising to me that Apple has 3D building data from Flyover already, but doesn't use it. They have reasonably good 3D scans of cities, with textures, and it doesn't seem that much of a stretch for them to differentiate between trees, cars etc. and turn that into building shapes - even if it requires human sorting, Apple does have billions of dollars. They could end up with more detailed buildings on their 2D view than Google.

That being said, they probably simply don't care. Maps is a means to an end for Apple, and likely not itself a direct money maker. People use it because Apple has a captive audience - you can't set your default Maps app on the iPhone to anything else. I don't get the feeling anybody actually likes it, altho I do enjoy using Flyover to see those 3d scans from time to time.

Minor criticism of this great article: a side-by-side view of the images would be better for comparison and more comfortable to the user than an automatically changing gif.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#109

Post by adventured »

kumarvvr wrote: post #94
bobdole1234 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About 3GW of computing power. No really. Apple lacks the raw computing capacity to be able to pull this off, even if they had the algorithms and data already.

With their cash pile, they could surely expand, considering the long term returns on such expansion of computing power. Maybe Apple just dosent see the need to improve or dosent see any revenue potential with Maps.

This Internet / Web software services weakness goes all the way back for Apple. Jobs was constantly frustrated at how mediocre Apple's results were in that area (in my opinion I don't think he was very good at cultivating that area in terms of his expertise or skill).

It's extremely difficult for a company to be good at many things. I'd be skeptical there's anything Apple can ever do to be good at their hardware object core (hardware + OS) and Internet services. iTunes has sucked for years, they either don't care or can't do anything about it. How did Spotify take the lead in streaming services? Why didn't they understand to acquire Netflix for streaming when it was tiny? Same fundamental reason, Apple isn't very good at Internet services.

Siri, iTunes, streaming (which is doing ok), Apple Maps, MobileMe, Ping, these are all the same problem. They mostly got the App Store right, to their credit.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#110

Post by maxerickson »

ncdev wrote: post #78

Google also uses (used?) a great deal of human judgment in Maps (note: these sources are a few years old now) [1, 2]. [1] https://www.wired.com/2014/12/google-maps-ground-truth/ [2] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/09/how-g...

Yeah, here the buildings quickly disappear outside of dense areas. Which could be a result of prioritizing the denser areas with an automated system, but there's lots of missing buildings in the built up areas too.
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