Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf] • Hacker News Board

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#101

Post by AElsinore77 » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 5:52 PM UTC

An interesting angle on studying personality is through the lens of research on psychoactive substances. A study on magic mushrooms several years ago found that "just one strong dose of hallucinogenic mushrooms can alter a person's personality for more than a year and perhaps permanently." Previously, it was posited that: "personality rarely changes much after the age of 25 or 30..... This is one of the first studies to show that you actually can change adult personality.."

This raises the follow up question: what is changing? Is there a fundamentally different reaction to the same situation, or is there instead a different interpretation of the situation which is what is leading to a different reaction?

Cognitive behavioral therapy, the "most widely used evidence-based practice for improving mental health," provides evidence that the latter is absolutely a possible answer. "CBT is a psychotherapy that is based on the cognitive model: the way that individuals perceive a situation is more closely connected to their reaction than the situation itself."

Based on this, it seems very possible at least one way people can "choose" to change their personality (as defined by their reactions (feelings, thoughts, and actions) to situations) is to seek to find ways to change the way they percieve the world.

Sources: https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personalit... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_behavioral_therapy https://beckinstitute.org/get-informed/what-is-cognitive-the...

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#102

Post by bayonetz » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 6:05 PM UTC

themodelplumber wrote: post #9

I'm a personality type coach and I help people implement the kinds of changes described in the paper. There are many different models that deal with this kind of change. But taking one step back, I think it should be made more clear up front that "having a desire to change one's personality traits" itself is a trait. There is no need to pressure (most) people to change, and many good people feel a strong pressure to…

Hey there. I'm a personality type enthusiast and would be interested to chat about some of these things. If you're up for it, send me a note to: trolochecr@hs130.com

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#103

Post by stordoff » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 6:13 PM UTC

dschuetz wrote: post #3

This paper is dangerous. It lets an ignorant mind assume that personality is a choice in some way, so a person with unpopular (e.g. more personal) personality traits will need to change those to more popular and sociable ones. People refusing to do so will be considered selfish and will be punished/excluded from society. Welcome to Orwellia!

Is there any reason to think it's not a choice at some level? I doubt it's a conscious choice, and almost certainly guided by environment and habituation, but I also suspect it's malleable to at least some extent.

I'd also say that what you describe is just a more extreme version of how the world currently is - people with more popular personalities _tend_ to get further.

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#104

Post by MadSudaca » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 6:27 PM UTC

racer-v wrote: post #99

MadSudaca wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Being pleasant is probably a mix of having a good dose of the agreeableness and extroversion personality traits. Both of which are uncorrelated to creativity and IQ, other two traits.

I know, but the possibility of getting rich is a nice booby prize for the unlikeable and unattractive.

It’s definitely not impossible. You probably won’t have an easy time if you’re someone who requires the approval of a lot of people, for example, being a public figure or exploiting your image.

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#105

Post by cJ0th » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 6:44 PM UTC

“Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.” ― Henry Ford

I think this is quite on the money. The problem is that many of us don't manage to think "you can". For one thing, many hold kind of fatalistic beliefs and feel powerless. Others suffer from over-confidence. That's not really thinking "you can" but delusion. I could imagine that this is a nature & nurture thing and that nurture would be enough for most people if only they could find them-selves in an environment that's right for them. The problem is, however, that we still kinda suck at bringing the right people together.

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#106

Post by dschuetz » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 6:45 PM UTC

stordoff wrote: post #103

dschuetz wrote: post #3

This paper is dangerous. It lets an ignorant mind assume that personality is a choice in some way, so a person with unpopular (e.g. more personal) personality traits will need to change those to more popular and sociable ones. People refusing to do so will be considered selfish and will be punished/excluded from society. Welcome to Orwellia!

Is there any reason to think it's not a choice at some level? I doubt it's a conscious choice, and almost certainly guided by environment and habituation, but I also suspect it's malleable to at least some extent. I'd also say that what you describe is just a more extreme version of how the world currently is - people with more popular personalities _tend_ to get further.

At some point you can consciously reflect on what those personality traits actually are, but you can't be sure what they are exactly. Personality traits are not directly observable, whereas behavior can lead to observation of trends, from which a personality trait can be deducted. So, the first and most difficult part of changing a certain trait is to identify it thoroughly. Also, it depends on who is observing whether a personality trait is actually likable or not. Extreme expressions of such traits are the most obvious. But aren't all traits to be taken into account, because the extreme ones always stem from myriads of nuanced trends in behavior? See, it's not at all that easy to identify a certain trait, not to speak of consciously changing a certain behavior over a long period of time.

Why are some traits more likable than others? Which ones are real and which ones are faked or biased (actors, salespeople, etc)? This paper goes far deeper into those questions than I intended to do. My point was, that there are people out there (and also here) who will take this paper, read the abstract, assume that changing one's personality traits is as easy as drinking a beer and go tooting that misinterpretation of actual facts as alternate facts. It's not a yes or no choice. It's not as quantifiable as a beer. It's an expression of behavioral trends.

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#107

Post by michrassena » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #100

michrassena wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think if we were to dig into the reasons someone would want to change their introverted personality, it would be specifically to enjoy or at least tolerate situations they associate with being extroverted. I wonder if the outcome is what matters. Changing one's personality may or may not be possible, and would certainly be a difficult task if it were, but obtaining the behaviors associated with the desired personal…

>> Isn't an introvert saying they wish they were an extrovert (for example) really just shorthand for wanting it to be easy to interact and socialize, as they imagine it is for extroverts. Introversion vs extroversion isn't really defined (as I understand it) by your social skills or even your desire to be around people. It's based on where one derives their mental energy. Introverts can socialize but it is mentally…

Perhaps the reason extroverts find interacting with people exhilarating is because it's not much work for them. Or perhaps because their perception of what is at stake in an interaction to be less than what introverts perceive. Better dancers step on fewer toes, as it were. And while I'm sure there are terrible dancers with a thousand hours on the dance floor, they must be a rarity.

Practice won't turn the introvert into the Haile Gebrselassie of social interaction (natural talent exists), but it will help. A couch potato will suffer through every mile of a run, until they give up. A seasoned runner will be energized by a run over the same distance.

I would characterize an extrovert's social interactions as existing in a state of flow. An extrovert has a perception of their ability that closely matches their actual ability. An introvert has too little confidence in their actual abilities, or too little ability.

So my point, and if nothing else, I've convinced myself of this fact, which might be useful in a fake-it-until-you-make-it fashion, is that social interaction is a skill, a learnable/teachable skill. And as such, we can group those who possess this skill into introverts and extroverts.

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#108

Post by EGreg » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 7:58 PM UTC

maxxxxx wrote: post #93

EGreg wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given your description of your job, I have a quick question: I have found that when I speak, I rarely command attention and captivate as some others do. Probably something in my speech patterns. Perhaps they are slightly more apologetic / geeky / nice than others. People may interrupt me or turn away, even people who respect me. When I do get rapt attention, such as teaching a class, I get an impostor syndrome becaus…

"I have found that when I speak, I rarely command attention and captivate as some others do. " Be careful with that assessment. You may captivate people like others do but you may not notice. I learned that in toastmasters. I thought that everybody had checked out of my speeches after the first minute but actually people listened and liked the speech.

Interesting! How to tell?

I am basing my assessment off how often people turn their attention away or interrupt.

However during toasts and classroom teaching I do NOT experience this. Only during conversations.

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#109

Post by zuzuleinen » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 8:31 PM UTC

klibertp wrote: post #91

aalleavitch wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you condition yourself to more regularly exhibit a certain behavior, how is that different from changing your predisposition towards that behavior? Certainly, new habits can be formed and over time people come to exhibit new behaviors reflexively if they've made a habit out of them. Some habits may be harder to form than others, and one's environment will always have a major impact on which habits they're able to…

I don't know what can change the nature of a man, but I think simply changing your behavior is not enough to do so. While it certainly is possible to form new habits, but as long as they go against your nature the price to pay for this is high: you could cultivate a neurosis or depression by doing so.

"While it certainly is possible to form new habits, but as long as they go against your nature the price to pay for this is high: you could cultivate a neurosis or depression by doing so."

Can you please elaborate on this?

Re: Can People Choose to Change Their Personality Traits? (2015) [pdf]

#110

Post by cik2e » Mon, Dec 18, 2017, 11:20 PM UTC

Just to clarify a common misconception introversion != shyness. It's a matrix of shy/not shy and extravert/introvert. Introverts prefer to spend more time solo, but certainly don't have to be shy. Not shy introverts tend to be the power players in society. And there is such a thing as a shy extravert. You all probably know one or can remember them from your earlier years. The wallflowers who go to every social gathering but don't really interact with others. As a not shy introvert, I can tell you that I enjoy and need the occasional social gathering, but too much time with others gets draining.