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Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#101

Post by puranjay »

thatcat wrote: post #85
mchristen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of blocks is not core to the algorithm of Bitcoin though. What would you say to the person trying to send $30 only to have $20 of it eaten up in fees? Come back later when you can afford to use Bitcoin?

I'd say stop storing your spending money as btc, it's an asset not cash. Can you liquidate your 30$ peice of gold in < 4 hours for market value? Probably not.

Yes, a "currency" should be treated as an asset, not cash.

The pro-BTC arguments are becoming absolutely inane

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#102

Post by username223 »

jstanley wrote: post #77
ericsoderstrom wrote: post #45

People now envision bitcoin as 'store of value', and less like an actual currency. I imagine there are many technical and financial reasons why it will never be suitable as a currency. (Deflationary by design, technical limitations on size of blocks leading to slowness of transactions) Does being unsuitable as a currency mean it's also unsuitable as a 'store of value'? The answer to that isn't obvious to me. The valu…

> The value of the US dollar comes in part from our ability to pay taxes with it (and perhaps ultimately from the US military). It doesn't come from either of those things. It only has value because people believe it does, otherwise they would all try to get rid of it as quickly as possible.

> It only has value because people believe it does,...

Have you ever asked yourself why they believe that? It's because they can pay their taxes with it, but also, as it says right on the front, "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." As long as the US government is still a thing, this phrase means what it says. I haven't seen anything so far to convince me that BTC has more stability or longevity than the US or EU (or Britain...).

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#103

Post by jstanley »

magnat wrote: post #86
jstanley wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody can run a lightning node. I intend to do so. It's not like PayPal where if you want to pay using PayPal you have to use PayPal-the-company. With Lightning, if you want to pay using Lightning you can use any route you like over the Lightning Network to reach the recipient of the payment.

If you run your own LN node, your channel is associated with your IP, and your transactions are associated with your channel. It is the same as reusing a single bitcoin address for all your transactions, with all the consequences [1], except this time you can tracked down to your physical location. In vanilla bitcoin you can at least generate addresses at will, while opening and closing payment channels every now and…

Good point, but since there's no obvious reason Lightning Network couldn't work over Tor hidden services, I expect that to happen in time.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#104

Post by eterm »

thatcat wrote: post #85
mchristen wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The size of blocks is not core to the algorithm of Bitcoin though. What would you say to the person trying to send $30 only to have $20 of it eaten up in fees? Come back later when you can afford to use Bitcoin?

I'd say stop storing your spending money as btc, it's an asset not cash. Can you liquidate your 30$ peice of gold in < 4 hours for market value? Probably not.

"Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System"

Peer to peer cash.

Not "Gold", not "asset", but "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash".

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#106

Post by jstanley »

username223 wrote: post #102
jstanley wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The value of the US dollar comes in part from our ability to pay taxes with it (and perhaps ultimately from the US military). It doesn't come from either of those things. It only has value because people believe it does, otherwise they would all try to get rid of it as quickly as possible.

> It only has value because people believe it does,... Have you ever asked yourself why they believe that? It's because they can pay their taxes with it, but also, as it says right on the front, "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." As long as the US government is still a thing, this phrase means what it says. I haven't seen anything so far to convince me that BTC has more stability or longev…

You're confusing the value of 1 US dollar with the agreement that a dollar bill is worth 1 US dollar.

The dollar bill is worth 1 USD because the government asserts that.

That doesn't make 1 USD anything. It just means the dollar bill is worth 1 USD.

The government has no power to prop up the value of the USD if the world decides it's worthless.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#108

Post by jstanley »

laurus wrote: post #96
jstanley wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The value of the US dollar comes in part from our ability to pay taxes with it (and perhaps ultimately from the US military). It doesn't come from either of those things. It only has value because people believe it does, otherwise they would all try to get rid of it as quickly as possible.

> It doesn't come from either of those things. Yes it does. You have to pay your taxes in U.S. dollars, so people have to use it. That's one of the purposes of taxes: so that the government-issued currency is used.

It's quite obvious that the value of USD comes from much more than the taxes people have to pay. If the only demand for USD was from people paying taxes, it would be worth only a small fraction of what it is actually worth.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#109

Post by solotronics »

alanfalcon wrote: post #87
svet_0 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just need to wait for a few seconds for the transaction to be "pending" though, which is enough for small-medium payments. Unless you're worried the guy buying a 5$ burrito from you will mine a block with his double-spent transaction.

A service could pop up that offers to double spend your $5 transaction and refund you a percentage of the amount. If they mine the block you scam a few bucks, if they don’t you paid full price. It would be profitable for the miner and for the burrito buyer at the expense of the burrito seller. If such a service becomes common, that seller is going to start making you pre-order your burrito 20 minutes in advance – at…

you can also walk out of the store with the burrito without paying but that is also stealing. this small transaction issue will be solved technologically but the changes are incremental because of the risks involved.

Re: Did Bitcoin just prove it can't scale?

#110

Post by philipwhiuk »

snodnipper wrote: post #37
sdwisely wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it would and it will imo. I just don't think bitcoin is it. It has however bootstrapped a few potentials. Until its decided which that might be, bitcoin kinda serves its purpose.

root DNS services do not service _every_ lookup _but_ they back delegated authorities, which does scale. Same for blockchain tech.

So you're saying Bitcoin needs banks like every other currency then?

So what's the point of it again?

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