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US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

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Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#101

Post by heurist »

chrisbennet wrote: post #96
delta-v wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about saying replacing the current system with proportional representation? Is that a useful comment?

There are good reasons not to have proportional representation, at least not purely proportional. One downside to strictly proportional representation is that a concentrated majority can make decisions without collaborating/cooperating with the minority. Example: Coastal states with large populations could just ignore the other states with small populations. The US bicameral congress balances the proportional House a…

The alternative right now is the minority having total control over nearly all federal and state bodies of government in the nation. I'll take the 'risks' of proportional representation over that...

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#102

Post by ithkuil »

dingaling wrote: post #94
WillPostForFood wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the main reasons large corporations pay no tax is that they hide the money in other countries with lower corporate tax rates. You can argue that it is a race to the bottom, or ineffective for other reasons, but the lower corporate tax rate is an attempt to deal with the issue, and get a cut of that money, albeit at a lower rate.

But if private citizens were able to park their income offshore I am fairly sure the response wouldn't be to lower income taxes.

Aren't there agreements between the US and other countries that prevents or limits double taxation for private citizens? Is there anything analogous for companies?

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#103

Post by libertyEQ »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #84
djur wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It changes a lot more than that. Although we don't know precisely what, because the House and Senate bills need to be reconciled (or the House will just pass the Senate bill) and the Senate bill was literally written on the floor tonight. Nobody has done a serious analysis of its effects. What we do know suggests that it will increase the uninsured rate substantially, increase the deficit dramatically, and trigger au…

increase the uninsured rate substantially If people choose to drop insurance because they aren't mandated to buy it, then it is on them increase the deficit dramatically certainly true trigger automatic cuts to Medicare This is the only reason I'm replying, because there is no way that it will happen. No one wants cuts, and it would be political poison. Claiming it is fear mongering (not you, but the people using it…

Because of the PAYGO law, it looks like Medicare would be cut by $25B in the first year:

https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/advocacy/info-2017/sen...

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#104

Post by gergles »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #83
swang wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

see, you read the senate bill that was proposed yesterday. the current bill that passed, afaict, eliminated SALT completely.

Hrrmm, you must have read the bill 12 hours ago, before Susan Collins got her amendment added. The Senate tax bill will include my SALT amendment to allow taxpayers to deduct up to $10,000 for state and local property taxes. https://twitter.com/SenatorCollins/status/936647024417615872 But as others have pointed out, this still can change as it goes to reconciliation.

State and local property taxes, which I don't believe were ever in question. I'm fairly confident SALT, in this context, referred to the deductibility of state and local income taxes.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#105

Post by nojvek »

mbaha wrote: post #90
spuz wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you replied to does not say that China's political system is better in any way, simply that if such a system (single party authoritarian government) can out develop the US then there must be some serious improvements to be had for the US's democratic system. In other words, if China can give their people what they want without fair elections or due process or freedom from corruption then our democratic sys…

I have to admit I slightly misread the parent comment, but still: as long it's not a democracy, how can you consider that China "can give their people what they want". The "they" cannot be referring the people of China, or the majority because China is just not a democracy. This is the main difference between a country which holds free elections every 4 years, and a single-party country.

Chinese middle class is booming. US is going through the opposite.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#106

Post by thrden »

shams93 wrote: post #40

The Republicans have been so skilled at digital jerrymandering that we have digital technology delivering us a single party state. Only mass voter outrage will be enough to overcome a decade of very effective data driven jerrymandering.

gerrymandering actually only comes into play within the house. if the vote for the house was done by a purely popular basis without regards to districting and state boundaries, the republicans would still control the house. However, their majority would be far slimmer[1].

overall these comparisons are complicated as you often have situations where candidates from the same party compete against each other, or face no challenger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_House_of_Represe...

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#107

Post by thrden »

labster wrote: post #65
leifaffles wrote: post #63

Here's a sampling of the top comments in this thread: * "protesting is virtually impossible" * "The law making process is so clearly broken" * "society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game" * "the US doesn't have enough accountability for its leaders" * "digital technology delivering us a single party state" * "Dystopian police state here we come" * "protest has been criminalized. The people who…

Elections in which the majority of voters voted against the current President, as well as for the opposition party in Congress. US politics is fundamentally broken because the majority does not get its way, nor does the party getting the lion's share of votes get a say in major policy.

While you are absolutely correct that the presidency was won by the minority of voters, its not really correct to say the same for congress. Within the house of reps where everyone is up for election every 2 years, the republicans won the popular vote. The senate is trickier as only a 3rd of senators have an election at any given time, thus the differentials are skewed based on which states are voting at a given time.

in 2016: democrats won 53% of the vote, republicans 43%

in 2014: democrats won 43% of the vote, republicans 52%

in 2012: democrats won 53% of the vote, republicans 43%

Part of the problem when comparing popular votes nationally is that you often have situations in CA where the two candidates running for office in the general election are both democrats. when the sum total of those votes is 10m, or the differential between the number of votes the republicans received nationally and the number democrats received nationally, is it fair to complain about a lack of representation? Other times within house races there wont even be a challenger.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#108

Post by thescribe »

domoritz wrote: post #4

It's sickening how large corporations make more and more money but pay almost no taxes because (through the money) they have so much influence on politics.

I'm coming from a very opposite perspective. All corporate taxes are silly, just tax the people that make income.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#109

Post by quadcore »

adamnemecek wrote: post #9

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

> Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC

Im no expert but it seems to me its pretty doable. In France, we sometimes have 2 million people protesting.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#110

Post by WillPostForFood »

libertyEQ wrote: post #103
WillPostForFood wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

increase the uninsured rate substantially If people choose to drop insurance because they aren't mandated to buy it, then it is on them increase the deficit dramatically certainly true trigger automatic cuts to Medicare This is the only reason I'm replying, because there is no way that it will happen. No one wants cuts, and it would be political poison. Claiming it is fear mongering (not you, but the people using it…

Because of the PAYGO law, it looks like Medicare would be cut by $25B in the first year: https://www.aarp.org/politics-society/advocacy/info-2017/sen...

Yes, that is what I was specifically addressing (see link), and it is nonsense.
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