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The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

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Re: The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

#101
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know several women in their mid-thirties who adamantly refuse to consider long term partnership with perceived low status males (along lines of status, power, wealth and education). Lowering standards aside, this attitude alone would be off-putting for most men, high-status ones especially. What do they bring to the table? Certainly humility isn't one of them.

Parent is using blunt language to communicate economically, don't read into it too much. The women displaying such mate selection patterns could easily be friendly, sociable, and well-liked.

LOL. I'm a cis white dude, 39, make ~300k year, skipped grad school, mild child prodigy, am in decent shape and am very tall. From my experience, women in major cities, especially in the U.S., are predominantly jaded, lack (or feign) general life-skills, life-experience, purpose, respect, manners, direction, trustworthiness and reciprocity. To me, the biggest turn-offs (sans personality disorders): materialism, strategic self-/other-sabotage, ignorance, uncoolness, selfishness, infantilism, lack of introspection and autonomous behavior. The hook-up pool for me is virtually all but the dating pool for me is basically zero.

Unreasonable, non-reciprocal selfishness compared to value offered (ie sanity, health, intelligence, etc.) isn't worth arguing with. Plus, gold-diggers feel entitled to "their half" in community property states.

For dudes looking for life-partners (sans marriage), look at other countries and college towns. If you just want to get laid, pay for it... it's much cheaper and simpler. If you want to make more money, find a decent woman whom is supportive, honest and fun and isn't divorce-oriented, one-side relationship-lazy or has a wandering eye.

For dudettes for the same, they ought to sex/relationship tourism or relocate to male-heavy ratio places like the SF Bay Area.

For both, don't get married or have kids, except after long-term stability.

Re: The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

#103
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing more to add to your comment here besides stating I had a similar experience. BPD, narcissistic and sociopathic traits all derived or perhaps exasperated by significant and truly awful childhood trauma. Had me in an awful state for a year. Being introduced to intermittent reinforcement by my therapist was the moment that the penny dropped and I started to relinquish my feelings of loss and guilt.

Could you expand on the intermittent reinforcement concept in the context of an interpersonal relationship? I think it might help me.

= = =

If you'd like to contact me direct to discuss any of the below, feel free. My e-mail is

jonathon at jdtay .com

= = =

I'd be happy to.

The following articles went a lot way to assist me in getting out of an incredibly toxic, abusive relationship. If you're anything like where I was at, the addictive qualities of an abuser will leave you with manic highs and lows. It's a manipulation tactic, you and the relationship you had were nothing special. You were seduced and it's a trait shared by most people in abused relationships in every sense.

Once I realised I was being spent and manipulated and I wasn't in anyway in love, I was just being led astray. My healing process started almost immediately and the strength I never could find to finally escape from my abuser came quickly and efficiently. This isn't to say it was easy. Withdrawal symptoms are very fucking real.

Realising it's not love that you're walking away from, it's something much more sinister and primal than that. You'll find strength and self esteem to start putting yourself first. It's also at this point that you'll start to notice just how horrid the experience was and it's here that I must encourage you to seek professional help if you are not already. You'll be tearing down walls that a professional will need to help you rebuild and unpack.

In another note. If you're like me and you're a man leaving an abusive relationship with a woman. You may find it distressing that almost every article you find online was written in the angle or perspective of a female victim and a male perpetrator.

Undoubtedly this is statistically going to be the most likely scenario in most abusive relationship though I personally believe from my experiences and those of my closest family and friends. That this statistic is less weighted in favor of male abusers than you'd suspect.

The number of articles written in a light to support and assist men who've escaped emotional abusive relationships is shockingly sparse and I was hurt that there was such little content for me to personally relate to.

Both sites, Out of the Fog (i) and Psychopaths and Love (ii) have a lot of great content. Word of warning though. Psychopaths and Love's website is a piece of shit. But the content is relateable.

= = = = =

i) http://outofthefog.website/what-not-to-do-1/2015/12/3/interm...

"Intermittent Reinforcement - Intermittent Reinforcement is when rules, rewards or personal boundaries are handed out or enforced inconsistently and occasionally. This usually encourages another person to keep pushing until they get what they want from you without changing their own behavior." ...

"The personality disordered individual is often aware that he or she lacks appropriate self-control and that their abusive behavior is less than satisfactory in the eyes of the Non-PD. They may fear that their behavior will result in negative consequences, increased conflict, loss of trust and respect or even loss of the relationship. They often want to make amends and wish for a better result. However, most prefer not to confront the root of the problem and want to avoid the unattractive prospect of endless psycho-analysis, admitting their failings, being treated like a problem, being forced to take medications, being regarded as someone who has a "mental problem". So they straddle the line of acceptability, trying to maintain the status quo, occasionally trying to "make up for it" when they perceive they may have crossed the line. Once in a while, the Non-PD may blow a fuse and put their foot down or threaten to leave, but it is typically short-lived. Like the person who builds a house in the flood zone, they hope they can "ride out" the occasional storm and get what they want without having to change."

= = = = =

ii) http://psychopathsandlove.com/intermittent-reinforcement/

The following article I found slightly less helpful. The language is uses is both emotive and inflamed. There are a lot of shared behaviors that can be both from some one with Borderline Personality Disorder, Narcissistic Personal Disorder, a psychopath, sociopath or some one with deep, horrific trauma. It's important not to start labeling your abuser. You'll get it very wrong unless your a professional in this field. Instead just recognise the behaviors as being unhelpful and leave it at that.

This article (and almost the entire site) is purely targeted towards those who have been in relationships who are either sociopathic or psychopathic so do take this into account. It's also exclusively written from the perspective of a female victim which quite often left me with a poor taste in my mouth.

All the same, you'll find the analogies and the methods that are outlined to be familiar.

"There is nothing like the elation and bliss of new love. Especially when you believed you had found ‘the one.’ That took it to another level. You may have felt you never really knew what love was before. You were probably infused with incredible joy and happiness. You finally found what you were searching for, and it was even better than you ever imagined.

And then one day something unexpected happened. You got a queasy feeling that you couldn’t shake. You sensed deep in your gut that he or she was pulling away. Your heart sank and your stomach clenched with fear.

In the process of the psychopathic bond, the moment when the joy at finding love turns into the fear of losing it is called the ‘manipulative shift.’ When that happens, the psychopath takes control. This is when the devaluation stage begins.

Fear takes away our ability to think clearly. It’s an intensely powerful and uncomfortable emotion, and we want it to go away. In this case, fear was caused by the threat of losing our (supposedly) wonderful relationship. When we see someone as being the one who can take our fear away, we will give them just about anything. In this situation, hat would be the very person who caused it in the first place — the psychopath. He or she took our fear away by becoming attentive and loving again. If we asked him if something was wrong he told us that we were imagining things, or he blamed us, or made up some excuse, for his lapses"

Re: The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

#105
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know several women in their mid-thirties who adamantly refuse to consider long term partnership with perceived low status males (along lines of status, power, wealth and education). Lowering standards aside, this attitude alone would be off-putting for most men, high-status ones especially. What do they bring to the table? Certainly humility isn't one of them.

Parent is using blunt language to communicate economically, don't read into it too much. The women displaying such mate selection patterns could easily be friendly, sociable, and well-liked.

...and also extremely reluctant to date men who are shorter than they are. (Yes there are studies here too.)

Men aren't better of course, we have other impractical (but evolutionarily significant) biases, needless to say.

Re: The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

#106

> They end up being forced to compete for the limited pool of educated men not just with their more numerous educated rivals, but also with less educated women whom men find desirable on other dimensions. Considering that we want to eliminate any gaps between the genders, why are educated women limited to educated men of their own ages? Why not increase the pool like men do: go for more younger, possibly less educate…

Because women typically have different mating strategy -- hypergamy, which goal is to decrease the mating pool size as much as possible down to the best candidate. Men's mating strategy is polygamy which is increasing the pool size as much as possible.

In other words most women would prefer to stay alone forever rather than marry a man who they consider suboptimal.

Add to the equation the "mating standards" that are overblown by Hollywood and social media and the picture of dating market becomes even darker.

I believe this exact mechanism (also aggravated by social media) is responsible for the decline of fertility rate below the reproduction level in countries with well educated population.

Re: The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

#107
post #8

Better tools to connect women and men could have a major impact and increase the chances that couples connect with each other. Tinder and other dating sites are absolute shit (plenty of literature on their problems for both men and women out there) and in person interactions are becoming more rare. Improving these tools might help some of the people who would otherwise not connect or find suitable mates to do so, tho…

The problem isn't the tools, the problem is human nature. The way we select mates just doesn't work the way we tell ourselves it does, and the reality is that vary many people will never be compatible with anyone.

In the past, and in other cultures, this is solved by significant social pressure forcing people together.

Re: The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

#108

> They end up being forced to compete for the limited pool of educated men not just with their more numerous educated rivals, but also with less educated women whom men find desirable on other dimensions. Considering that we want to eliminate any gaps between the genders, why are educated women limited to educated men of their own ages? Why not increase the pool like men do: go for more younger, possibly less educate…

> Considering that we want to eliminate any gaps between the genders, why are educated women limited to educated men of their own ages? Biologically and evolutionarily speaking, men want younger and more fertile women to mate with. Women want established males ( their age or older ) to mate with. > Why not increase the pool like men do: go for more younger, possibly less educated men (as the article implies for men)?…

1. Many women want the option to stay home and raise their own children, at least for a few years. If a woman marries an otherwise-wonderful man who earns half her salary, she will not be able to easily stay home with her own child while maintaining their former standard of living. So there are some logistical concerns here that just aren't there for men. Perhaps in a country with a lot of paid maternity leave, these issues would not be as pronounced.

2. I have trouble with the blanket statement that women "want established males" "biologically and evolutionarily speaking." We live in a society. Peoples' behavior in a society is not some mystery that can only be deciphered by looking at chimpanzees. Our society has some very messed up rules about who gets to have the most power. People respond to and strategize around their current reality. If that reality were to change -- like, if we had free childcare or 4 years paid maternity leave, or some other radical shift -- many of these calculations would "magically" fall away.

Re: The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

#109

> They end up being forced to compete for the limited pool of educated men not just with their more numerous educated rivals, but also with less educated women whom men find desirable on other dimensions. Considering that we want to eliminate any gaps between the genders, why are educated women limited to educated men of their own ages? Why not increase the pool like men do: go for more younger, possibly less educate…

Indeed. This is an imaginary crisis invented by people who just want to whine instead of finding solutions for themselves. Travel and online dating are (relatively) cheap. If someone can't find an educated husband in Manhattan then take a trip to Shenzhen or Houston or wherever.

Re: The Mating Crisis Among Educated Women

#110
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a firm believer in humanity's ability to overcome our biology.

So are religious leaders and mothers and Soviet social planners. But they are perpetually disappointed. Because what is humanity without it's biology? Instinct doesn't belong to the individual, it belongs to the species. And life doesn't care atoll about abstract moral principal. That's just syntactic sugar to help us manage and grow the hive given biological impulse. When we overcome a natural impulse guess what? It…

>If we overcome all natural impulse (how?) this species is finished and are something else, certainly not "humanity" at that point.

What's wrong with that?

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