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Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

nytimes.com

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Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#101

Post by malloryerik »

comboy wrote: post #17

Marketing wins everywhere. Paintings, IT, open source projects, startups, everything. It seems to be responsible for 90%+ value in worryingly many cases. It may be getting worse. I think in the next few years we will see rise of companies that help customers make decent choices that are not solely based on advertising. We have many user review based solutions but it just doesn't work with most things (not even touchi…

It appears to be perfect timing for trading in da Vinci, seeing that the biography by Walter Isaacson[0] is a bestseller and likely to be turned into a movie. You'd guess that market liquidity would be greatly increased by this, and liquidity (the ease with which one can find buyers and sellers -- buyers esp in this case) is likely to be a major issue in the art market. And a da Vinci might appeal to bidders who aren't normally involved in the art market.

Walter Isaacson talks about his book and the painting in question, "Salvator Mundi," "the one that's going to be going on sale," in a 50-minute interview with Charlie Rose.[1] The talk of this painting is at 31:45. That's pretty good marketing right there.

The painting itself is mesmerizing, gorgeous, awakening, tremendous.

[0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34684622-leonardo-da-vin...

[1] https://charlierose.com/videos/31068 (31:45 for talk of "Salvator Mundi")

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#102

Post by zippy5 »

ktta wrote: post #60
crazygringo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Case in point - is the 'undisclosed buyer' really benefiting $450.3 mil worth? Of course not! They are benefiting from whatever the difference is between $450.3M and what they expect to sell it for in the future, discounted to present value. Which means they might either expect to make money on it, or at least not lose too much on it. For some people, buying art aren't isn't too different from buying stocks... exce…

>For some people, buying art aren't isn't too different from buying stocks You are making it look like there's no emotion involved. Buying art in my opinion is mostly an emotional one, unless you're lucky and getting a Monet in a yard sale (which you admit by saying 'you can't do anything to enjoy equities hanging on your wall.'). Also, it is definitely not a logical rationale like buying stocks. Atleast not a stable…

There is centuries of data about how this asset has appreciated. It has a brand that has endured 500 years. Most of the stocks you will invest in, probably won't exist in 50.

What could you possibly want to diversify against? It has outlasted Governments, new technologies, and new ideologies. Diversification is a durability strategy and this painting has proven durability across a multitude of change.

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#103

Post by visarga »

malloryerik wrote: post #101
comboy wrote: post #17

Marketing wins everywhere. Paintings, IT, open source projects, startups, everything. It seems to be responsible for 90%+ value in worryingly many cases. It may be getting worse. I think in the next few years we will see rise of companies that help customers make decent choices that are not solely based on advertising. We have many user review based solutions but it just doesn't work with most things (not even touchi…

It appears to be perfect timing for trading in da Vinci, seeing that the biography by Walter Isaacson[0] is a bestseller and likely to be turned into a movie. You'd guess that market liquidity would be greatly increased by this, and liquidity (the ease with which one can find buyers and sellers -- buyers esp in this case) is likely to be a major issue in the art market. And a da Vinci might appeal to bidders who aren…

> liquidity is likely to be a major issue in the art market

How much art is being bought only to park some money (like Chinese rich buying houses in US and Canada, keeping them empty)? They might treat art like bitcoin - as unreproducible proof of work standing in for money.

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#104

Post by dingaling »

hw wrote: post #84
olympus wrote: post #65

You could buy three F-22 Raptors with that kind of money. Well, Congress would never approve the sale, but this painting went for triple the per-copy price of the F-22, according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor I might be biased, but I know what I would pick if given the option, and it cruises 1,200 mph.

Trying to compare a piece of art, history and culture, with a weapon of destruction. Great job.

An F-22 is, regardless of its function, one of the most complicated devices ever created by man. In that sense it is an example of the combined 'art' of the skills of many thousands of highly-skilled individuals.

In past centuries cathedrals were hailed as the masterpieces of the skills of craftsmen.

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#105

Post by [deleted] »

olympus wrote: post #65

You could buy three F-22 Raptors with that kind of money. Well, Congress would never approve the sale, but this painting went for triple the per-copy price of the F-22, according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-22_Raptor I might be biased, but I know what I would pick if given the option, and it cruises 1,200 mph.

[deleted]

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#106

Post by vixen99 »

mynewtb wrote: post #91
sporkologist wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Marketing In this case: Painting for sale; of Jesus; by Leonardo da Vinci. I don't think you can cram more important Western culture into one object.

What is culture but successful marketing though.

You could say that about any communicated idea that gains traction (because of its perceived value) but you're not saying much.

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#107

Post by vixen99 »

blunte wrote: post #70
drcode wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree- I would estimate 95% or more of really rich people are mostly indistinguishable from an upper middle class person from the outside: Sure, they have maids and maybe fly their own plane or have an expensive classic car but there are these 5% of rich people who somehow have a strange compulsion to advertise their wealth as widely as possible and they're the ones who have the 100 mil yachts and go to these sorts…

Clearly Bill Gates doesn't need to flaunt his wealth. I'm sure he was just really excited by Da Vinci, and the opportunity to own a real piece of history was totally worth it. Despite Gates's (very) questionable method of rising to greatness, what he has attempted to do with his wealth is well above what most "rich" people do.

And he's done a brilliant PR job. https://www.liberationnews.org/real-agenda-gates-foundation/

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#108

Post by Neracked »

visarga wrote: post #103
malloryerik wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears to be perfect timing for trading in da Vinci, seeing that the biography by Walter Isaacson[0] is a bestseller and likely to be turned into a movie. You'd guess that market liquidity would be greatly increased by this, and liquidity (the ease with which one can find buyers and sellers -- buyers esp in this case) is likely to be a major issue in the art market. And a da Vinci might appeal to bidders who aren…

> liquidity is likely to be a major issue in the art market How much art is being bought only to park some money (like Chinese rich buying houses in US and Canada, keeping them empty)? They might treat art like bitcoin - as unreproducible proof of work standing in for money.

> How much art

Hard to tell.

Rich people store art in freeports (along with gold bars, like in the Geneva Freeport) to secure their assets while avoiding paying taxes. And from times to times, they lend some of their art pieces to museums in countries where they want to further reduce their taxes.

According to an article in The Economist[1] in 2013: "Because of the confidentiality, the value of goods stashed in freeports is unknowable. It is thought to be in the hundreds of billions of dollars, and rising."

[1] https://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21590353-ever-more-w...

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#109

Post by m-i-l »

crazygringo wrote: post #51
ktta wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“When information is cheap, attention becomes expensive.” ― James Gleick We've come to a point where we're inundated with everyone trying to push their own agenda that it is difficult to both sort the BS out, while also becoming impossible to really appeal/reach out to the people who would appreciate and benefit from what one has to offer. >I think in the next years we will see rise of companies that help customers m…

> Case in point - is the 'undisclosed buyer' really benefiting $450.3 mil worth? Of course not! They are benefiting from whatever the difference is between $450.3M and what they expect to sell it for in the future, discounted to present value. Which means they might either expect to make money on it, or at least not lose too much on it. For some people, buying art aren't isn't too different from buying stocks... exce…

> you can't do anything to enjoy equities hanging on your wall.

I can't imagine a half a billion dollar painting being hung on anyone's wall. In fact I can't imagine it bringing much enjoyment to anyone, given it is likely to spend it's life locked up in top secret high security climate controlled vaults.

Re: Leonardo Da Vinci Painting Sells for $450.3M, Shattering Auction Records

#110

Post by bambax »

comboy wrote: post #17

Marketing wins everywhere. Paintings, IT, open source projects, startups, everything. It seems to be responsible for 90%+ value in worryingly many cases. It may be getting worse. I think in the next few years we will see rise of companies that help customers make decent choices that are not solely based on advertising. We have many user review based solutions but it just doesn't work with most things (not even touchi…

> Marketing wins everywhere

> ... decent choices that are not solely based on advertising

Marketing and advertising are different things. Marketing wins everywhere, that's absolutely true. Advertising helps, if marketing is good to begin with. Advertising a badly marketed product will not save it.

Marketing is framing, positioning, helping customers (future customers, but also present customers) see the value of an offering. Marketing is the CEO's job. Marketing wins everywhere because it is everything.

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