And then a certain Nobel Prize believes "nudges" will be used for our own good. Ha-ha.
Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
101–110 of 145 posts
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
100% agreed on the ethics note. Calling it 'dopamine' is also pretty remorseless. Interestingly, the creators of the like button and pull to refresh, and others, are pushing back against this 'attention economy': https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/oct/05/smartphon...
Paul (author on that piece) is wonderful! Not so much remorseless, we were just shooting for contrarian and attention grabbing...And here we are....knee deep in front page of HN hate mail...
You are building a Zynga-like company and writing vague comments instead of direct answers here. Why do you expect positive replies?
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#103[deleted]
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
What on the evil part? Or that we make the whole team read Skinner? It's a thin book.
...really? Welp, there's another one on the 'never touch with a 10-foot pole' pile. Yikes, your promotional account sounds like a grinning glassy-eyed sociopath. Serious goosebumps.
A good sociopath would have been charming.
I think they’re very aware of the problems and they would rather be in the good side of the issue.
I think he just doesn’t know how to convert this or talk about it in a forum setting well.
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is how I understand what you're saying: We are building something evil and reprehensible, but we are open about what we are building, and therefore we are better than the other guys who are doing it surreptitiously. Fine, but in that case your product is basically performance art. Bravo, you did a good job raising awareness: now go actually work on fixing the problem instead of pretending like you aren't part of…
OK but who do you think is worse, Voldemort or Umbridge?
People are downvoting you, but I think you actually make a good point here.
I'm just not sure which one is which. Is Dopamine Voldemort or Umbridge?
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is how I understand what you're saying: We are building something evil and reprehensible, but we are open about what we are building, and therefore we are better than the other guys who are doing it surreptitiously. Fine, but in that case your product is basically performance art. Bravo, you did a good job raising awareness: now go actually work on fixing the problem instead of pretending like you aren't part of…
Making games more addictive is not really all that "evil" or "reprehensible". It's not much different from making them more fun. What does need work is their messaging. Suggesting they can control users does not sit well. Instead, they could suggest they make games so much more fun, users boost in-game time. They need a lesson on marketing and messaging, the idea itself is fine.
What's your take on gambling addiction?
Frankly, I feel bad that we are piling the heat on to this company. I think a lot of the people in this thread are frustrated and upset, and don't know where to apply their energy to start solving the problem that they are upset about. I am one of them; I had a very visceral reaction to the OP.
But I think this is a good wake up call for just how angry and frustrated we all are. We should be thanking this company for putting us over the edge. How many of the posters here railing against addictive media checked Instagram or Facebook in the same hour that they read this post? Time to start putting our money where our mouth is.
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#107> While Brown condemned the behavior that’s been attributed to Sacca — and expressed disappointment that Mazzeo found the same troubles at his would-be new home, Binary Capital — he said that it didn’t dissuade him from taking Lowercase’s money. Yup, people always take a high moral stand.. until there is money involved.
pecunia non olet
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's not much different from making them more fun. I've played quite a few games that were addictive but not fun . The difference is hard to spot when you're in the middle of it, but stark from the outside. Typically they start off being plain fun to draw you in, and then gradually segue into addictive after a few hours to keep you there.
Addictive games are often fun, I didn't say necessarily fun. But that wasn't my point. My point is that it's not terribly evil to make a game addictive. Addictive qualities are only bad to the extent that the addictive thing hurts you (e.g., smoking, drugs). These games are all pretty harmless.
No, addiction is never harmless. If you have never been addicted to anything, it is difficult to empathize or understand.
That doesn't mean it is wrong for a game to become addicting because it is so damn fun it just happens to become addicting. What is beyond despicable to me is to create a game that deliberately manipulates the human mind to become addicting without being of any real value.
If nothing else, it's a matter of opportunity cost. You are stealing attention away from hobbies, friends, family, and more likely, more wholesome forms of entertainment, possibly even more intelligent video games. Through in-app purchases you are funneling people's income from their bank accounts to yours and your employees'. This is fine when people are making a choice to waste their resources, but when you take people's choice away by addicting them, then you are effectively enslaving them.
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
They just got a ton of press, reaching the exact markets they want to hit. Their fax machine is probably ringing off the hook right now.
WE HAVE A FAX!!??!?!
Have you got any products to trick people into liking your product? Your comments in this thread seem to be having the opposite effect.
Re: Dopamine: An AI platform for designing human behavior
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's not much different from making them more fun. I've played quite a few games that were addictive but not fun . The difference is hard to spot when you're in the middle of it, but stark from the outside. Typically they start off being plain fun to draw you in, and then gradually segue into addictive after a few hours to keep you there.
Addictive games are often fun, I didn't say necessarily fun. But that wasn't my point. My point is that it's not terribly evil to make a game addictive. Addictive qualities are only bad to the extent that the addictive thing hurts you (e.g., smoking, drugs). These games are all pretty harmless.
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