Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 276 posts

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#101

Post by RightMillennial »

mozumder wrote: post #34
KGIII wrote: post #6

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there. I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared a…

Technically, you're supposed to actually kill Nazis, since the US government (and many others) literally declared war against them. Anything short of that is just a gratuity towards them. Honestly, Americans aren't horrified enough by the mere existence of these people, treating them as an academic concept. If you actually know Nazis, you already know they're an extremely violent group. It took only a few days of me…

> Technically, you're supposed to actually kill Nazis

I'm shocked to actually see this sentiment on HN. You're technically supposed to kill Nazis? That war ended 70 years ago. While I have no sympathy for Nazis, advocating murdering them makes you no better than them. This is disgraceful.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#102

Post by liberte82 »

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #83
aaron-lebo wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The effect your are talking about seems legit. The flip side about that is if you force these groups out of the public and then into the shadows, that's only proving the paranoia. Does that radicalize things even more? The same kind of viewpoints existed in the mid 90s, underground, and that lead to OKC which was one of the worst terrorist incidents in US history. Is it better or worse that this is happening in publi…

I'm really torn on this. On the one hand, these are humans, not monsters; their views can be changed, perhaps, but not if we force them into hiding and radicalize them. On the other hand, giving them power and influence in public spaces, the ability to disrupt other people's discourse and lives at will, is not okay. I'm not sure there is one best solution. We need to give bigots a chance to change their views, and we…

Forcing them into hiding isn't what radicalizes them. We dealt with hidden KKK groups in a pretty stable manner for 70+ years. Maybe it made the worst of them even more extreme in their views due to the persecution. But it kept their numbers limited and their opinions from becoming mainstream.

It's giving them an easily accessible echo chamber that radicalizes them and allows them to recruit. The internet has changed everything.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#103

Post by zanny »

untog wrote: post #17
mschuster91 wrote: post #8

Hmm. This is going to be interesting. I mean, nearly everyone should be fine with banning Nazis. After all, they're vile and in my opinion don't deserve any place on the world except the inside of a jail cell... The problem is: where will the line be drawn? What about Black Lives Matter? The more, uh, militant parts of the Antifa movement? Militant animal rights groups (which actually are treated as domestic terroris…

I think everyone is freaking out about the headline unnecessarily here. From the first paragraph: has started to implement a new policy to ban content that glorifies and incites violence, and among the first to go were forums for Nazi, racist and white supremacist groups. They aren't banning Nazis because they are Nazis. They are banning Nazis that glorify or incite violence. And anyone else that glorifies or incites…

There are circumstances where violence is the only answer. Look at the Arab Spring. In hindsight, Egypt did not fix the fundamental social issues that led to their revolution, but they were faced with a tyrant dictator butchering people in the streets in 2011.

Almost all modern democracies came about through violent disposition of monarchies or dictators, and we only consider those good revolutions vs Nazi revolution or communist revolution being bad because, usually, people only want violence done to prevent violence in the future by the aforementioned murderers on the throne. IE, defend yourself or your neighbor and you are in the right, but if you overthrow the mob just to create your own mafia you are in the wrong.

Look at Catalonia now. Take away political ideology and ask the question - if a majority of Catalonians want independence (and that is a big if), and the Spanish government brings troops to bear upon them, is it immoral of them to organize their own army to fight back? That is inciting violence, but it is in the exact same capacity as revolutions for centuries were organized to overthrow regimes deemed undemocratic or unrepresentative of a people.

Not to say all revolutions are good. The American Confederacy was abjectly bad because their motivation for secession was to continue to own human beings as property. Or how Caesar overthrew the Roman Senate to become a tyrant himself. But unless you categorize the American, French, Spanish, etc revolutions of their times as all being "bad" because they were "inciting violence" then it is not a black and white issue where you can just say "we ban the inciting of violence because were being moral" and wipe your hands clean of it. Its way more complicated than that.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#104

Post by mindslight »

blfr wrote: post #13

Why has free speech fallen out of favour with SV? Ironically, it happened rather silently. It's not just an Eternal September-like phenomenon. The very same people who used to support it not only don't any more but pretend they never did in the first place. Speaking of the founding fathers, I ask him what he thinks they would have thought of Reddit. "A bastion of free speech on the World Wide Web? I bet they would li…

Fundamentally, it is the Eternal September phenomenon - the majority believes in censorship by the majority.

Prominent individuals' opinions have shifted because they are now the establishment. Rather than a VC-funded startup with high upside and low downside, they are now an accounting-based business with high downside and low upside. The majority demands censorship - inevitable with centralized communications technology. And so they're forced to choose between opinions, and might as well go with the popular ones. The rest of the narrative is backrationalization.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#105

Post by Wellshit »

mozumder wrote: post #34
KGIII wrote: post #6

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there. I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared a…

Technically, you're supposed to actually kill Nazis, since the US government (and many others) literally declared war against them. Anything short of that is just a gratuity towards them. Honestly, Americans aren't horrified enough by the mere existence of these people, treating them as an academic concept. If you actually know Nazis, you already know they're an extremely violent group. It took only a few days of me…

> Technically, you're supposed to actually kill Nazis, since the US government (and many others) literally declared war against them.

Technically, you're advocating for violence against a group of people.

Should you be banned?

Hope you can see the slippery slope.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#106

Post by Wellshit »

DasIch wrote: post #99
mozumder wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technically, you're supposed to actually kill Nazis, since the US government (and many others) literally declared war against them. Anything short of that is just a gratuity towards them. Honestly, Americans aren't horrified enough by the mere existence of these people, treating them as an academic concept. If you actually know Nazis, you already know they're an extremely violent group. It took only a few days of me…

Indeed as a German the idea that some people think appeasement is the right strategy to combat nazis is astonishing. You don't talk to nazis, you destroy them.

Ban this one as well, boys.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#107

Post by yodsanklai »

mschuster91 wrote: post #8

Hmm. This is going to be interesting. I mean, nearly everyone should be fine with banning Nazis. After all, they're vile and in my opinion don't deserve any place on the world except the inside of a jail cell... The problem is: where will the line be drawn? What about Black Lives Matter? The more, uh, militant parts of the Antifa movement? Militant animal rights groups (which actually are treated as domestic terroris…

> where will the line be drawn?

It's a difficult question. As much as I'm for free speech and against censorship, I still have the feeling that a line has to be drawn somewhere. For instance, we can't reasonably authorize Isis propaganda on public forums, can we?

Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I suppose that calls to violence are already forbidden. I'm not familiar with US free speech laws, but I remember that Martin Shkreli has been jailed over some stupid joke on twitter.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#108

Post by 0x4f3759df »

michaelchisari wrote: post #44
KGIII wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue they have no moral obligation to do any such thing. However, they should probably make a pretty clear warning sign. I fear we will digress too far. In short, I'm very pro freedom of expression. I'm glad voat exists, for example. The people there are often horrible, that is true. But, they still deserve to express themselves freely.

I don't understand why anyone deserves server space and labor resources. They are free to express themselves, but the cost of running a service is not free, and they have no right to those costs. They can stand in a public square and say what they like. They can have debates in their own living room. They can print up manifestos on their own dime. They have a right to do all of that, and nobody's arguing against that…

A group could set up their own server, but then their DNS provider drops them, so they solicit funds but then payment processors drop them. Sometimes the post stops delivering physical mail to your house because you wrote a book they don't like. There are a lot of choke-points.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#109

Post by KGIII »

sighwhatnow wrote: post #100
KGIII wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we as a society have decided even the least among us deserve a base amount of human rights and freedoms and those aren't taken away without due process in a just society. I don't expect to change your mind. It's okay. I'm just really, really pro human rights. I've seen places with massive deprivations of rights. That's not okay.

Please explain what human rights have to do with anything in this thread. As another commenter pointed out, there is no human right to post racist bullshit on a privately run online forum.

I don't think you actually read what I said. Please do so. You will note that I point out that no rights are violated and even provide an alternative. You asked a question, I gave you the answer.

Please, really, read all the words and what I write, not what you think I write. Start from the top post, as all my replies are contextual.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#110

Post by pknopf »

oh_sigh wrote: post #88
pknopf wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to the sub and click the first post you see. Evidence provided. edit: Here is the first non-stickied post I found. https://g.redditmedia.com/lWzOghJ9C76p2rMmU3CDWhHTtojbXJ9vlu... > Here is Hillary Clinton shitting herself on 9/11 > Did PETA publicly complain about the handling of that cattle? > THE SIDE OF BEEF MARRIED A RAPIST!!! > Hope she had her shitting pants on

First post seen at the top of the front T_D page is this: http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/26/the-last-time-hillary-had-... Which is making fun of a HRC tweet from last october which said "Happy Birthday to this future president". Doesn't seem very hateful to me. edit: Basd on your edit, I'm curious what you find hateful about this? HRC passed out on 9/11/16 and was dragged into a waiting van. There is a longstanding m…

There was a T_D user who faked a knife attack. He said it was a black person who did it because "he was white". He immediately posted his bloody hand on T_D and said "apparently I look like a NAZI".

It was later found out that he made it up. He cut himself.

He did it intentionally to stir up hate for black people. The entire sub is effectively 4chan. Crass jokes, fake news, subliminal degenerate brainwashing.

It is a breeding ground for people to hate blacks and brown people.

Post reply on HN