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Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

blog.flattr.net

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Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#101

Post by growt »

gorhill wrote: post #87
growt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are a company so they have to make money (Most of HN readers should relate to that). Some of this money is also used to fight law-suits, keeping ad blocking legal (at least in germany [1]), something a free solution like ublock origin can not do. [1] https://www.golem.de/news/adblock-plus-olg-muenchen-erklaert... (german)

> something a free solution like ublock origin can not do. The core of the lawsuit was about Eyeo's business model specifically, charging for being listed in a whitelist. This of course does not apply to uBO.

I think the lawsuits started before Eyeo introduced the whitelist?

But imagine if uBO was used by 90% of all Users, so the big publishers would notice and lobby to get ad-blocking banned, there would be no one to defend it then.

Or if google took over ad-blocking by making it build-in in chrome (and of course whitelisting it's own ads).

edit: just realized you're the ublock author! I didn't mean what I said as an insult to you (like you wouldn't care to defend adblocking). I just think it might be beneficial to have a commercial player in ad-blocking (that isn't google) from time to time.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#102

Post by lsdornheim »

hybridtupel wrote: post #3
abcd_f wrote: post #2

> Install the desktop extension If they are expecting me to _install_ something on my precious machine, they'd better be damn explicit what it is and what _exactly_ it does. I can see bits about this and that spread across their blog posts, but nothing cohesive and nothing on the home page itself. All in all though - they appear to be wanting a real-time access to the browsing activity and its full history. That's, o…

There is [1] with a little bit about the privacy issue, but yes you have to trust them, not sending more than the urls to flatter. [1]: https://blog.flattr.net/2017/06/key-elements-of-the-new-flat...

Or you can just check the code. Or European privacy laws. Hint: They take this stuff serious!

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#103

Post by bonqis »

VikingCoder wrote: post #53
stevenj wrote: post #28

Some things to consider about Flattr: you have to install a web browser extension; the extension requires access to your full browsing history; it was bought by the parent company of Adblock Plus, Eyeo.

You didn't used to have to have a browser extension, not for sites that participated. So for instance, I had flatr configured to follow all of my YouTube Likes...

The extension uses a lot of data points (including your browser history) to decide what to flattr. But we never get the full data, the algorithm runs in the browser and only the results (the flattrs) are sent to us. This is the most privacy friendly solution possible that still gives enough data for us to know who should get the money and for you to know what you flattred. As well as for creators and publishers to know what content actually generated the money.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#106

Post by bonqis »

endijs wrote: post #33

I was big fan of original Flattr, that's why i was excited for 2.0 too. However that "extension" setup is something that still keeps me in evaluation phase, rather than 100% in. I inspected extension (not 100% of it, but a bit of code, storage, xhr calls). Some findings: * They use whitelist (visible in source) of sites, thus they do not record activity on all sites, but just the ones in whitelist. * You can individu…

Pretty good summary!

We have tried to be as thorough as we could with what data the extension saves in local storage, even with the first release. There are always improvements that can be done and will be done.

We are going to add to the blacklist to not send things like twitter settings or wp dashboards etc.

Youtube is a bug that sneaked in just before release, in reality the UI does not reflect that youtube is supported and used. It's being addressed right now.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#107

Post by gkya »

icebraining wrote: post #8
IvanK_net wrote: post #5

I would like to point out two things about Flattr: - Whenever other people send you money, Flattr keeps 10% from that money. - When you make money with Flattr, Flattr expects you to give this money back to other authors you like. And they will send them back to other authors. As the money are sent back and forth, and 10% are removed at each step, Flattr is the only one actually making any money.

Flattr expects you to give this money back to other authors you like What does this mean? By the way, apparently the full fee is now quite higher: https://blog.flattr.net/2017/10/our-new-fee-structure/

That their business model is to get the money move as much as possible, as they charge per transaction.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#108

Post by bonqis »

vog wrote: post #37
endijs wrote: post #33

I was big fan of original Flattr, that's why i was excited for 2.0 too. However that "extension" setup is something that still keeps me in evaluation phase, rather than 100% in. I inspected extension (not 100% of it, but a bit of code, storage, xhr calls). Some findings: * They use whitelist (visible in source) of sites, thus they do not record activity on all sites, but just the ones in whitelist. * You can individu…

I never understood why they decided to coorperate with the AdBlock Plus creators. From a technology point of view, that might have been a gain for them. But does this outweigh the loss of the "trust in advance" that they would otherwise receive? Also, what's about the risk of being dragged into bad reputation? (Which might happen as soon as AdBlock Plus gets bad media coverage, once again.)

In reality it's the opposite and that is why we join their boat. There is no company that tries to fix the internet in the profound way eyeo does. They care about all the things most internet companies does not. The reputation they got are based on stories created by the ad industry, and yes, obviously they hate eyeo.

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#109

Post by bonqis »

CaveTech wrote: post #14
tome wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - Nope, not gonna touch that! (after finding out that flatter was acquired by the makers of Adblock Plus) What's wrong with Adblock Plus? I use it. I thought it was supposed to be good. Is there something I've missed?

A lot of people have issue with the fact they allow certain ads through if the publisher pays them enough. They claim that these ads are not aggressive or distracting, but the optics are pretty bad. A for profit ad-blocking company that makes money from ads.

There is no way of just paying eyeo to get your ads through the system. If you confirm to the acceptable ads standard your ads can be classified as that and visible to the people that has not chosen to block those too.

For the huge sites, a cut of the ad revenue is taken, more or less as for any other ad network/service really. The full info is here https://acceptableads.com

Re: Flattr 2.0 launches to the public

#110

Post by bonqis »

leopld wrote: post #38

I used to be quite excited about Flattr. The ideology they stand for is what makes them exciting, so I don't want to judge them by their brand, but still I can't help but feel that their communication and product design is honestly terrible. They communicated almost nothing for around 3 years, and now they're back to relaunch. I just don't feel very confident about their organization.

:( yeah, things took way longer than we wanted. It always does.
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