Why is computer science a sausage fest?

Post by yummyfajitas » Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 1:55 PM UTC

Confusion wrote: post #54

philwelch wrote: post #30

On someone's complaint about Google setting up a special grant program for women, OP writes: This stinks of jealousy. Why not be happy for the female students? Why rain on someone else’s parade? Something good happening to someone else seems to disgust fringley. Frankly, it comes off as childish. That's a terrible argument. Can't you say that about any form of discrimination? "So what if all the nice houses and neigh…

Let me first say that you are right that her comparison of 'cowboy' vs. 'good developer' is completely ridiculous. Talk about her prejudices showing in conjuring up that straw man. I've never worked with any developer that fitted in the cowboy category, while most did their best to fit in the 'good developer' category. However: Can't you say that about any form of discrimination? She could, but that's not what she is…

Post by yummyfajitas » Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 2:03 PM UTC

moultano wrote: post #29

kylec wrote: post #3

CS education works best for people who already know how to code before they begin. CS teaches the theory behind a practice in which they assume you already have some skill. Women are less likely to already know, because they don’t play video games as much. This does not make any sense. How does playing video games translate to coding skill?

One anecdote that I heard from people involved with the CMU admissions criteria for CS. In addition to GPA, leadership skills, etc. they used to also look for something interesting technical that you'd done prior to college. They have now removed that criteria from the selection process because they found that it did not correlate with success upon coming to CMU, but it did correlate with gender.

Post by cabalamat » Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 2:12 PM UTC

mattdw wrote: post #81

Lewisham wrote: post #44

Obviously anyone making any comment about this article is wandering into a minefield of appearing sexist. While I agree with the sentiment (attracting girls into CS is OK, putting some money at the end of a stick is OK, and CS will benefit from them being there), one of the points did bother me. The first time I spoke at a conference, John Allsopp contacted me to ask if I would do it. I never would have submitted a p…

"To which I shall counter, but you should have. This is an attitude of entitlement." Clay Shirky has written about this at length [1]; the basic point being that women are socialized their whole lives to not be entitled or aggressive but to stay quiet and in the background, while men are constantly socialized to take what they want, step forward, go for it, "be a man" etc. Obviously there is much variation, and yes,…

Post by Karzyn » Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 2:26 PM UTC

calibraxis wrote: post #61

philwelch wrote: post #30

On someone's complaint about Google setting up a special grant program for women, OP writes: This stinks of jealousy. Why not be happy for the female students? Why rain on someone else’s parade? Something good happening to someone else seems to disgust fringley. Frankly, it comes off as childish. That's a terrible argument. Can't you say that about any form of discrimination? "So what if all the nice houses and neigh…

Actually, a better analogy would be African-Americans getting extra scholarships, to compensate for the relative lack of wealth their families accumulated. I certainly wouldn't begrudge this. Whatever cognitive differences there are between the sexes, I think they're very minor. Do they keep people like Shakespeare from being considered great writers, though women are said to have stronger verbal ability? Anyone read…

Post by cabalamat » Tue, Jul 27, 2010, 2:37 PM UTC

natrius wrote: post #33

alanh wrote: post #19

> On the other hand, he assumes those women didn’t deserve to be sent to JSConf. Why should he assume that? Utter crap. That’s clearly not what the critics are concerned about. The women may indeed deserve to go — but no more than men who are not being offered the same grants. This is what is objectionable. This, and the implication that women need pushed into the field or artificially assisted, strike some as sexist…

If women have the same potential both to succeed at computer science and to enjoy the work as men do, the underrepresentation of women in the field is a sign of problems that, if fixed, would result in more people leading more fulfilling lives. I think that is worth spending money on, and Google seems to agree. Moreover, if one's goal is to benefit the field of computer science rather than just help individuals choos…