Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tesla’s New Car Smell

mondaynote.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 205 posts

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#101

Post by udhan »

prostoalex wrote: post #85
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Tesla has the best system? The managers in charge of autopilot keep quitting. The media says they are quitting because Elon is making deceptive claims about autopilot. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

It’s not like choosing a fridge, where there are 500 models available. There are two autopilot systems commercially available today - Tesla Autopilot and Honda Sensing Driver Assistance. Two more are slated to be released - Cadillac SuperCruise and Audi Traffic Jam Pilot. The rest is an all-you-can-read buffet of press releases about some great tech this one company tested in this one lab (I hear Waymo is great, and…

Subaru's eyesight is there since 2015. Afaik, Honda sensing and eyesight are very similar.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#102

Post by lostboys67 »

Animats wrote: post #82
Hypx wrote: post #13

> I couldn’t help check off the sins against the “Toyota Bible”, prescriptions for car manufacturers that are lucidly detailed in The Machine That Changed The World (a great and, in parts, sad read). In particular, one mustn’t stockpile parts on the floor, they must be fed in small quantities at small time intervals. If a part has a problem, only a small quantity needs to be shipped back to the supplier who can inspe…

Tesla is doing stamping on-site and in-house. They have to store their in-process inventory somewhere. Toyota tends to push that problem back on their suppliers, demanding small just-in-time deliveries at a steady rate regardless of the optimum batch size for each part. It's an classic problem in manufacturing. Where do you put the in-process inventory? Near where it's made? Near where it's used? Someplace else? What…

I agree with all respect to Jean he's a computer guy and not a Mech Engineer. If Tesla has cheap land and can store locally why not - remember that Japan doesn't have as much land space as the USA has

JIT just pushes the costs on to smaller suppliers who a large company can effectively bully in the same way big supermarkets bully framers.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#103

Post by skgoa »

joelthelion wrote: post #97
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #65

> As I watched Tesla’s messy, hiccuping line, with workers dashing in to fix faulty parts in place, my mind travelled back to the Honda plant I had visited years ago in Marysville, Ohio. Clean, calm, everything moved smoothly. I was so shocked by the contrast that I imprudently voiced my concern. That didn’t go over well with my fellow Tesla owners. I was a killjoy, I was calling their choice into question. Well, it'…

The difference is that Honda doesn't make interesting cars. People are ready to cut Tesla some slack because they are truly innovating.

> Tesla [...] are truly innovating.

LOL

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#104

Post by _pmf_ »

wpietri wrote: post #64
carlivar wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really find it hard to believe they don't understand the TPS. Sure. Maybe. I don't know. It seems more likely to me their "goal" (pun intended for those readers of "The Goal") is the TPS but their particular supply chain may not currently allow for it.

> I really find it hard to believe they don't understand the TPS. Sure. Maybe. I don't know. American carmakers didn't get it for decades. Even when they thought they did, they performed Lean rituals without real understanding. This was despite Toyota trying vigorously to teach them.

> Even when they thought they did, they performed Lean rituals without real understanding.

This reminds me of a certain other industry cargo culting a certain other methodology, but I cannot put my finger on it ...

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#105

Post by skgoa »

tgtweak wrote: post #67
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think Tesla has the best system? The managers in charge of autopilot keep quitting. The media says they are quitting because Elon is making deceptive claims about autopilot. Do you have evidence to the contrary?

Also they've disabled autopilot for the time being. It's an interesting time for Tesla, they feel like the automotive equivalent of AMD - David keeping Goliath honest. How many automotive companies saw Tesla become an actual disruptive threat and then spent tens of billions on self driving and electrification? Tesla isn't going to compete with Honda or Toyota by copying their model (or even their manufacturing proces…

> How many automotive companies saw Tesla become an actual disruptive threat and then spent tens of billions on self driving and electrification?

0. You have fallen for the "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy. Tesla was not the first company that worked on these things. They were just the first who decided to sell a semi practical implementation and hype it up as if it where completely finished and polished.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#106

Post by shirro »

locusm wrote: post #90

Makes some good points except for the competition, I think its weak. Always wondered why Nissan intentionally made such an ugly car, I think the Leaf is no longer sold in Australia due to poor numbers. Isn't the Bolt a hybrid?

No it is an EV. The Volt was the hybrid. Confusing naming. Decent range and acceleration but no RHD model so not an option for Australia. Sad to have a GM plant going idle in Adelaide and no electric car subsidies.

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#107

Post by dingaling »

joelthelion wrote: post #97
KKKKkkkk1 wrote: post #65

> As I watched Tesla’s messy, hiccuping line, with workers dashing in to fix faulty parts in place, my mind travelled back to the Honda plant I had visited years ago in Marysville, Ohio. Clean, calm, everything moved smoothly. I was so shocked by the contrast that I imprudently voiced my concern. That didn’t go over well with my fellow Tesla owners. I was a killjoy, I was calling their choice into question. Well, it'…

The difference is that Honda doesn't make interesting cars. People are ready to cut Tesla some slack because they are truly innovating.

> The difference is that Honda doesn't make interesting cars.

You might have missed, for example the Honda Insight hybrid launched in 1999. Cd was 0.25 which was the lowest drag coefficient for a production car for a decade until bettered by a large electric sedan with 0.24...

Then there are the conventionally-powered Integra, S2000 and NSX[0] which are renowned amongst driving enthusiasts.

[0] actually the latest NSX is also a hybrid

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#108

Post by struppi »

lostboys67 wrote: post #102
Animats wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is doing stamping on-site and in-house. They have to store their in-process inventory somewhere. Toyota tends to push that problem back on their suppliers, demanding small just-in-time deliveries at a steady rate regardless of the optimum batch size for each part. It's an classic problem in manufacturing. Where do you put the in-process inventory? Near where it's made? Near where it's used? Someplace else? What…

I agree with all respect to Jean he's a computer guy and not a Mech Engineer. If Tesla has cheap land and can store locally why not - remember that Japan doesn't have as much land space as the USA has JIT just pushes the costs on to smaller suppliers who a large company can effectively bully in the same way big supermarkets bully framers.

"JIT just pushes the costs on to smaller suppliers who a large company can effectively bully in the same way big supermarkets bully framers."

This is not how the TPS works (At least not in theory. In practice, bullying may or may not happen - I don't know about any). The idea behind JIT is that you can react to changes in external circumstances faster.

Also, the suppliers should also not have huge stockpiles of parts. Then they can, too, react fast to changes in demand. But this can also cause problems: http://sloanreview.mit.edu/article/the-toyota-group-and-the-...

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#109

Post by sirkneeland »

lostboys67 wrote: post #102
Animats wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is doing stamping on-site and in-house. They have to store their in-process inventory somewhere. Toyota tends to push that problem back on their suppliers, demanding small just-in-time deliveries at a steady rate regardless of the optimum batch size for each part. It's an classic problem in manufacturing. Where do you put the in-process inventory? Near where it's made? Near where it's used? Someplace else? What…

I agree with all respect to Jean he's a computer guy and not a Mech Engineer. If Tesla has cheap land and can store locally why not - remember that Japan doesn't have as much land space as the USA has JIT just pushes the costs on to smaller suppliers who a large company can effectively bully in the same way big supermarkets bully framers.

But don't Japanese companies replicate this setup even when they set up factories the USA?

Re: Tesla’s New Car Smell

#110

Post by prostoalex »

rodgerd wrote: post #98
prostoalex wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Toyota’s recalls are expensive, as they involve a network of dealers who need to be paid for providing the repair and maintenance. Tesla’s vertical integration of service centers has an interesting side effect - recalls and repairs are pretty cheap, as the costs of service centers and loaner vehicles they give out are fixed and have been borne already. I wonder if that makes the company more dismissive of potential i…

I can't be the only person that would rather have the manufacturer of my car - for most of us the second most expensive thing we own after a house - have their incentives be to minisie the chance of shipping defects.

Those same incentives prevent those companies from fixing simple mistakes unless/until they are proven to be material.

Tesla is somewhat generous about voluntary proactive recalls on their dime http://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-recall-model-x-suv-dont...

With that said, I agree that owning a first-year production model from Tesla is an iffy proposition. Late adopters get a fairly reliable workhorse, judging from owners' forums and anecdotal personal experience.

Post reply on HN