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Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

maxkle.in

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Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#101

Post by _delirium »

astrange wrote: post #100
lionhearted wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I've heard too many horror stories from entrepreneurs getting burned in China to want to put all my chips in that stack. I had a girlfriend who was working at a Chinese media company five years ago, and her company said something unpleasant (true) things about an important company in the local province. The mayor called up the newspaper, and was pressuring them... it turned out alright in the end, but it was a…

> see AirBNB... hotels don't pay off the judge, they pay off the governor The law you're thinking of allows having guests as long as you actually live in your residence. My impression was that it doesn't actually affect AirBNB because of this.

In most cities that's true, but in a handful of big cities (mainly NYC and, from what I've heard, London), a large proportion of the AirBnB listings are actually quasi-hotels, listed by management agencies that are subletting dozens of condos, or even unlicensed hotels "subletting" out a whole building or large part of one. It shouldn't affect individuals renting out spare rooms, though, which is the less-shady part of AirBnB.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#102

Post by exit »

arethuza wrote: post #34
yummyfajitas wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How will moving to SV help with his number one concern (programmer cost)? In the EU he pays $5000/month for programmers. In the valley he will be paying roughly twice that. (The valley may have higher quality programmers and a better tech ecosystem, but I'm guessing the author is looking for grunts rather than artisans.)

Didn't he say 5000 Euro a month loaded costs? That's low end of the market where I am in the UK - for people with specific domain knowledge or a proven track record you would be paying a lot more.

what salary does 5000 euro a month loaded costs represent?

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#103

Post by prototype56 »

desigooner wrote: post #64
starkfist wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this were possible, but the difficulty in doing this is massive. If you are not U.S born, it's QUITE difficult to simply walk in and start a company in the U.S. How do all the Chinese/Korean/Indian people in the US do it? I often read on Hacker News about how difficult it is to start a software company in the US. But then I live in Brooklyn and people who don't speak english are always starting laundromats, bo…

I don't know about Chinese or Korean communities but a lot of the indians that you mention primarily come through via family ties. One person gets here (alone or family) and files for immigration papers for their immediate relatives, starts working here (usually at an establishment of a relative or a person from the same community), makes enough money, transitions to setting up a new business and the someone else tak…

That's usually the case for DDonuts and Subways but Indians who create high tech startups are usually the ones who stood in line for a greencard ( sometimes for decades ).

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#104

Post by apower »

paraschopra wrote: post #52
9oliYQjP wrote: post #3

China's great until you have to go to court there and realize you're being totally screwed over because your opponent has an "in" with the government. There are countries like Australia and Canada that strike a nice middle ground between too much and too little regulation, have decent, stable economies right now, and solid relationships with China in the case you want to partner with a company there. But I've heard t…

India has a fairer legal system. It offers a great balance between what Max wanted and what you describe. I'm curious why didn't India come up as an option for Max.

India has it fair share of massive bureaucracy and bribery corruption. Plus the basic infrastructure is rather lacking. You don't want to buy electric generator when you are small.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#105

Post by albahk »

Tichy wrote: post #39

"There are so many little ‘unfreedoms’ in Europe" I must admit, China would have never crossed my mind as the country of freedoms. But then, I've never been there. Also, I weigh some freedoms higher than others - I don't like that the Chinese government has the freedom to shoot me...

The odds of being shot by anyone in China unless you are comitting a violent crime is far less IMO than in the US.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#106

Post by joshwa »

maxklein wrote: post #7
jacquesm wrote: post #5

When in China, do as the Chinese do. If you want to really get off the ground there you'll need to partner with a local that knows the ways things are done, which is not always intuitive from a 'westerner' point of view. A friend of mine is currently going this route and there are a few other HN'ers that are doing this, maybe you guys should get together somehow and compare notes. That might save everybody both hards…

I would certainly love to meet other HNers that are going this route, perhaps you could set me up. I've got two close and old friends of mine that are locals and are collaborating with me, so that's good.

I'm moving to Kunming in Jan 2010-- will be contracting for my former employer but also working on startup projects, and hoping to employ some local university grads to do some grunt work...

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#107

Post by fgf »

aaronkaplan wrote: post #94

When you were growing up, the previous generation of German businessmen gave up some of their profits to pay for your education and health care, and to ensure that you grew up in a relatively safe and pleasant environment. They did this with the expectation that you would in turn pay for the following generation. I wouldn't go so far as to say that you should be forced to perpetuate the system. You didn't choose wher…

Odds are his parents are net tax contributors, including whatever the state spent on him. Only people with poor parents really owe what they got to the state, as opposed to productive people like their parents.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#108

Post by mallipeddi »

blueberry wrote: post #57
starkfist wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish this were possible, but the difficulty in doing this is massive. If you are not U.S born, it's QUITE difficult to simply walk in and start a company in the U.S. How do all the Chinese/Korean/Indian people in the US do it? I often read on Hacker News about how difficult it is to start a software company in the US. But then I live in Brooklyn and people who don't speak english are always starting laundromats, bo…

> How do all the Chinese/Korean/Indian people in the US do it? A lot of those come via green card lottery. That still means it's hard.

I don't know about Koreans, Indians/Chinese are NOT eligible for green-card lottery program.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#109

Post by fauigerzigerk »

semanticist wrote: post #99
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would also be concerned about the legal system in China, but political pressure on the media is very widespread in europe as well. During the Iraq war, the entire BBC top management was fired for being critical of the war. In many European countries, polititians are the bosses of journalists at the most important TV stations.

Do you have a citation for that BBC claim? I don't recall anything remotely like that. There was a lot of government pressure over the 'dodgy dossier' scandal, but nothing like 'the entire top management' being 'fired'. (By who? The BBC Trust?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC "The 2004 Hutton Inquiry and the subsequent Report raised questions about the BBC's journalistic standards and its impartiality. This led to resignations of senior management members at the time including the then Director General, Greg Dyke. In January 2007, the BBC released minutes of the Board meeting which led to Greg Dyke's resignation.[19]"

I followed the events very closely back then. It's interesting that you should mention the dodgy dossier. It was a dossier that the government presented in parliament as an intelligence report when in fact it was lifted from a thesis paper and then sexed up by government officials. This was a clear case of fraud. But none of the so called independent inquiries even looked at this dossier. They preferred to look exclusively at another dossier that was less troublesome for the government. I watched as much of the inquiries as was possible and I came away thinking, what a farce, what a complete farce. The government ordered the inquiries, they defined the narrow mandate of the inquiries, they appointed the people who conducted the inquiries, everything. And the inquiries didn't ask the questions that would have been tough for the government.

Instead they used a minor note taking mistake by a small radio reporter to pressure the BBC leadership into resignation. I heard interviews with Greg Dyke afterwards. They were plain and simple fired and the renewal of the TV license was used as a lever.

Re: Why I’m giving up on Europe and moving my startup to China

#110

Post by yardie »

ido wrote: post #98
yardie wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are trying to immigrate to the US on a non-immigrant visa then hell yes they will put you through the wringer. Do the proper paperwork and apply through the greencard lottery. There are plenty of empty spots for French and German greencard seekers. Since we share the same language the UK slots are perpetually full. Australians get a special immigration visa (R-1?) just for being awesome.

I'm not French or German. I haven't really heard of the lottery before, and I suspect this is the reason: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_Immigrant_Visa#Winnin... The amortized chance of "winning" over all regions is 1.51%.

It depends. They have quotas for different countries. Think of how many people are applying from your country. Then think of how many people are applying from Mexico, China, India, Guatemala. That is just the means so you have a much higher probability than if you are from a West European country than you do from a developing country.
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