Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense • Hacker News Board

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#101

Post by c3534l » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:00 PM UTC

indubitable wrote: post #54

I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true. It is stupefying that NSA contractors…

The problem is that people are fallable, often wrong, and always overconfident. Many presidents believe they can delegate the work of actually being president by blindly trusting those below him. In practice, you find the government to be filled with normal human beings doing their best in an organization where the shareholders are insane and irrational.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#102

Post by Consultant32452 » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:00 PM UTC

spaceseaman wrote: post #75

indubitable wrote: post #54

I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true. It is stupefying that NSA contractors…

> Our media and our government lied to generate a case for war. And I feel lately that they are now trying to build a case for some sort of conflict, presumably cold, against Russia I mean, there's verifiable evidence Russia tried to influence our election. That's pretty new for a lot of Americans. I imagine that's why the government and the media are running wild with it. Mueller is still investigating. I would say…

>I mean, there's verifiable evidence Russia tried to influence our election. That's pretty new for a lot of Americans.

That might be new for a lot of Americans, but not for anyone who has ever paid any sort of attention to international politics. In reality it would've been bigger news if Russia hadn't tried to influence our election. And that's not specific to Russia, I'd say that about any major economic power including allies.

>since the Cold War

We've been in a proxy hot war with Russia for years. Syria is a major Russian ally and a big part of our activity in Syria is to reduce the regional influence/power of Russia.

>I can't tell if you're rightly scared of the media

One would think that a group of people whose job it is to report on global politics would understand how much of a certainty it is that Russia would try to impact all of our elections. And yet they're pretending like this is shocking. I can forgive the general public, but any media outlet feigning shock is bold faced lying.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#103

Post by c3534l » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:03 PM UTC

spaceseaman wrote: post #75

indubitable wrote: post #54

I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true. It is stupefying that NSA contractors…

> Our media and our government lied to generate a case for war. And I feel lately that they are now trying to build a case for some sort of conflict, presumably cold, against Russia I mean, there's verifiable evidence Russia tried to influence our election. That's pretty new for a lot of Americans. I imagine that's why the government and the media are running wild with it. Mueller is still investigating. I would say…

Where is this verifiable evidence so I can actually verify it?

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#104

Post by mhneu » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:07 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #73

mhneu wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kaspersky was trained by the FSB (former KGB). (Putin has been quoted as saying "there's no such thing as a /former/ KGB officer"). So as a defacto agent of the Russian government, Kaspersky certainly considers the NSA (and other Western gov't agencies) to be an adversary. Agreed that it's crazy that the US govt ever used Kaspersky software. https://www.extremetech.com/internet/252421-russian-cybersec... "According t…

> Kaspersky was trained by the FSB (former KGB). No, he was trained by the KGB, the predecessor to the FSB, SVR RF, and , I think, a couple other organizations. (That is, he was trained while the Soviet Union and the KGB existed, and before the Russian Federation became independent and existing and new Russian institutions succeeded to the roles of the former Soviet organs.)

Sorry, should have said

"Eugene Kaspersky was trained by the KGB."

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#105

Post by lallysingh » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:07 PM UTC

gooftop wrote: post #89

lallysingh wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.clamav.net/ ?

In this day and age of FUD, what are the odds that said open source software has a vulnerability or malicious code inserted by some state actor (ours included)?

Probably low.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#106

Post by mhneu » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:08 PM UTC

dreamfactored wrote: post #91

mhneu wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kaspersky was trained by the FSB (former KGB). (Putin has been quoted as saying "there's no such thing as a /former/ KGB officer"). So as a defacto agent of the Russian government, Kaspersky certainly considers the NSA (and other Western gov't agencies) to be an adversary. Agreed that it's crazy that the US govt ever used Kaspersky software. https://www.extremetech.com/internet/252421-russian-cybersec... "According t…

Well the Pentium chip itself was a Russian design so why not use their AV - https://www.theregister.co.uk/1999/06/07/intel_uses_russia_m...

Cause the Pentium chip doesn't send info back to Russian intelligence services?

The US has a lot to lose by linking tech firms to intelligence services, but in this case - when an agent of one gov't is hacking another gov't, links to intelligence services are suitable for discussion.

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#107

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:13 PM UTC

mozumder wrote: post #9

"An NSA contractor brought home documents about U.S. offensive cyber capabilities. He used Kaspersky on his home computer. Russian government hackers stole the documents." https://twitter.com/ericgeller/status/915983591737319427 So, yah, avoid Kaspersky AV software.

[deleted]

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#108

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:13 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#109

Post by dmix » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:20 PM UTC

c3534l wrote: post #103

spaceseaman wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our media and our government lied to generate a case for war. And I feel lately that they are now trying to build a case for some sort of conflict, presumably cold, against Russia I mean, there's verifiable evidence Russia tried to influence our election. That's pretty new for a lot of Americans. I imagine that's why the government and the media are running wild with it. Mueller is still investigating. I would say…

Where is this verifiable evidence so I can actually verify it?

It's only been ~1yr since the election. You have to be patient for big cases like this.

Until then we have to trust the US intelligence community. Their messaging has been consistent that their arch-enemy they've been competing with for decades pulled a fast one on them and was unexpectedly effective at influencing an election.

Government sources have been leaking a bunch of stuff to the press in the meantime. This week it was alleged "Russian-linked" sources supporting the Republican party had bought Facebook ads [1] in the critical swing states:

> A number of Russian-linked Facebook ads specifically targeted Michigan and Wisconsin, two states crucial to Donald Trump's victory last November, according to four sources with direct knowledge of the situation.

Two states which Clinton's $500 million campaign reportedly neglected [2] despite the pleas of her former-president husband and advisors:

> Clinton made no visits to Wisconsin as the Democratic nominee, and only pushed a late charge in Michigan once internal polling showed the race tightening.

The other big leak was that of the hundreds of people the Trump campaign staff met and had phone calls with in 2016, it turns out 2-3 of them had connections to the Russian government. But it's not clear if they had any follow up meetings.

I'm looking forward to the full report showing the "critical role" Russia played in getting him elected...

[1] http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/03/politics/russian-facebook-ads-...

[2] http://wtvr.com/2016/11/11/bill-clinton-strategy/

Re: Russian Hackers Stole NSA Data on U.S. Cyber Defense

#110

Post by mncharity » Thu, Oct 05, 2017, 8:22 PM UTC

dreamfactored wrote: post #77

indubitable wrote: post #54

I find these allegations are deserving of some scrutiny. The entire story is quite bizarre when you begin to consider it. The NSA is apparently leaking like a broken pipe with this information. And it's peculiar because this is information that makes our intelligence agencies look completely inept. That is a very good thing if this story is fake, but a very bad thing if its true. It is stupefying that NSA contractors…

I'm going to take it that you've never done public sector contracting. The security rules are in reality less 007 and more school library, and this is totally believable. There is another story in the news now about soldiers smartphones being hacked in Eastern Europe. The troops are therefore made to go through water every day but some of them just put their phones in condoms. Defense contractors aren't even state em…

> Russia [...] controlled states [...] e.g. bring your passport to buy a train ticket to another town

That's a blast from the past. So, for those who haven't seen these, last century there used to be a set of "we're not like them, we have freedom!" examples, which were used in popular dialog to contrast the United States with the Soviet Union. Needing government papers to travel was one. The Soviet people feeling "why blame us for the actions of the government? - we don't control it" was another.

> Russia (and China and others) have an advantage here in having recently been run as controlled states

Well, we can't let them have that advantage over us! Googling "amtrack identification" yields "What Do You Need to Travel by Train in America? | USA Today" "Documents. [...] All travelers over age 18 and all unaccompanied minors age 15 and over must have a government issued I.D., such as a passport, driver's license or military I.D."

Like, foreign graduate students need to present their passports for inspection, in order to be permitted to enter my local Irish pub (Boston - minimum drinking age 21 - as required for federal highway funds).

Looking back, I don't recall anyone predicting, at the fall of the Soviet Union, that by losing a "them", for us to not be, we'd lose track of what we intended "us" to be.