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Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

spectrum.ieee.org

101–110 of 141 posts

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#101
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm on the hype train That’s the intellectual blind spot which is making this so hard to understand: you’re invested in the technology and want to see it succeed, which means you’re inclined to minimize every downside and boost every possible use without asking whether something is better in addition to being possible. Being old enough to remember when the internet was starting to go mainstream, there were op-eds l…

>>In contrast, we have a ton of blockchain hype without a single legal use which solves a problem normal people care about better than existing, well-tested technology. Maybe this is your blind spot? You assume it has to be legal to be useful. But in any case, there are legal use cases that work today: sending money with very little friction, including no need to provide a trusted third party or the payee your person…

> Maybe this is your blind spot? You assume it has to be legal to be useful.

I'm looking at what it takes to go mainstream — if it's predominately used for illegal activity, that'll deter normal people and legitimate businesses from adopting it and increases the likelihood of government regulation. As a simple example, how many people would use a tumbler if that started being seen as probable cause for a money laundering investigation?

> But in any case, there are legal use cases that work today: sending money with very little friction and with no need to provide a trusted third party or the payee your personally identifiable information.

How many people care enough about removing the trusted third party that they will use this instead of Google Wallet, Square, Venmo, etc. (and, soon, Apple Pay)? Some people value that but it seems unlikely that it's enough to make up for the smaller network, processing delays, and exchange fees.

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#102
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this system is free. Free? Who pays for the blockchain? Last I looked into it, each transaction requires about enough electricity to power a house for an entire day. That isn't very free.

That's an average including all the mining rewards, it's not actually paid by people issuing transactions. A simple transaction on Ethereum costs about a penny. I agree the energy consumption of present-day blockchains is a problem; hopefully proof of stake will fix it.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/

regarding proof of stake

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#103
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an average including all the mining rewards, it's not actually paid by people issuing transactions. A simple transaction on Ethereum costs about a penny. I agree the energy consumption of present-day blockchains is a problem; hopefully proof of stake will fix it.

http://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ regarding proof of stake

https://github.com/ethereum/wiki/wiki/Proof-of-Stake-FAQ

for counterarguments

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#104
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>In contrast, we have a ton of blockchain hype without a single legal use which solves a problem normal people care about better than existing, well-tested technology. Maybe this is your blind spot? You assume it has to be legal to be useful. But in any case, there are legal use cases that work today: sending money with very little friction, including no need to provide a trusted third party or the payee your person…

> Maybe this is your blind spot? You assume it has to be legal to be useful. I'm looking at what it takes to go mainstream — if it's predominately used for illegal activity, that'll deter normal people and legitimate businesses from adopting it and increases the likelihood of government regulation. As a simple example, how many people would use a tumbler if that started being seen as probable cause for a money launde…

>>As a simple example, how many people would use a tumbler if that started being seen as probable cause for a money laundering investigation?

Filesharing is arguably in this category and maybe shows that it's possible that something not generally used for legal purposes and not in the mainstream can nonetheless become widely used. But yes there is certainly a risk.

>Some people value that but it seems unlikely that it's enough to make up for the smaller network, processing delays, and exchange fees.

Right now cryptocurrency is in its infancy, so it has a lot of drawbacks, but it has obvious advantages that anyone can see, like being able to send money from your computer, without first registering with Google Wallet, Square, Venmo, etc, to anyone, anywhere in the world who also has the software installed on an internet connected device. This is a fundamental innovation in money transfer. You're right that it may not be enough to overcome the advantages that large trusted third parties can bring to make it go mainstream, but the advantages it has are obvious enough that people can see it potentially doing so.

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#105
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>In contrast, we have a ton of blockchain hype without a single legal use which solves a problem normal people care about better than existing, well-tested technology. Maybe this is your blind spot? You assume it has to be legal to be useful. But in any case, there are legal use cases that work today: sending money with very little friction, including no need to provide a trusted third party or the payee your person…

> Maybe this is your blind spot? You assume it has to be legal to be useful. I'm looking at what it takes to go mainstream — if it's predominately used for illegal activity, that'll deter normal people and legitimate businesses from adopting it and increases the likelihood of government regulation. As a simple example, how many people would use a tumbler if that started being seen as probable cause for a money launde…

You're overlooking the millions (perhaps billions) of people on the planet who do not currently have access to Western banking infrastructure.

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#106
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is great, however the real strength of blockchain lies in it being a distributed database. These are all single node examples. Would love to see some examples of a simple network based blockchain

Add your single node example onto git than it's distributed :-). For rolling your own peer-to-peer network and nodes see the starter articles linked in the Awesome Blockchains page that include examples in JavaScript, Go, etc. Happy blockchaining.

I did in fact roll my own network. You can view it here: https://github.com/mcrapts/simple-blockchain-network

It is spiritually based on your single node examples which I encountered earlier last week, so big thanks for that (was just enough to get me started).

Most of the logic resides in models/blockchain.js. You can interact with the node using the HTTP endpoints in routes.js.

Disclaimer: I have no idea what I'm doing, but it seems to work. Would love some feedback.

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#107

This is an open question, if you were to use blockchain to prove how much energy someone produced with their solar panel, doesn't this depend on a trusted configuration? Can't they feed in false data before the block chain part?

Yes and yes. This is the big pitfall i see so many ignoring - the real challenge if you're trying to interface with the outside world is establishing what the internal token means in the outside world without depending so heavily on a centralized weak link that the decentralization of the blockchain's maintenance is pointless. If the actors in a system don't trust each other enough to make changes to the database uni…

Regarding the solar panel part, could be a hardware requirement validated that way but I don't know you could probably spoof that.

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#108

From the article: Can a blockchain find people offering rides, link them up with people who are trying to go somewhere, and give the two parties a transparent platform for payment? Can a blockchain act as a repository and a replay platform for TV shows, movies, and other digital media while keeping track of royalties and paying content creators? Can a blockchain check the status of airline flights and pay travelers a…

ahh, the anti-bitcoin sentiment is alive and well here still

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#109
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe this is your blind spot? You assume it has to be legal to be useful. I'm looking at what it takes to go mainstream — if it's predominately used for illegal activity, that'll deter normal people and legitimate businesses from adopting it and increases the likelihood of government regulation. As a simple example, how many people would use a tumbler if that started being seen as probable cause for a money launde…

You're overlooking the millions (perhaps billions) of people on the planet who do not currently have access to Western banking infrastructure.

What subset of those people aren’t using a mobile-based banking system like Mpresa but do have the IT infrastructure to operate a cryptocurrency?

I’m all for helping spread modern infrastructure around but it seems like the current cryptocurrencies are taking on significant overhead to solve problems which aren’t pressing for very many people.

Re: Blockchains: How They Work and Why They’ll Change the World

#110

From the article: Can a blockchain find people offering rides, link them up with people who are trying to go somewhere, and give the two parties a transparent platform for payment? Can a blockchain act as a repository and a replay platform for TV shows, movies, and other digital media while keeping track of royalties and paying content creators? Can a blockchain check the status of airline flights and pay travelers a…

Just the storage requirements for these Vs a sane architecture would be insane.
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