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Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

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Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#101

http://content.tfl.gov.uk/review-tfl-wifi-pilot.pdf

Anyone who hasn't seen this yet should take a look, it explains in detail:

- Why they are doing this - What the potential passenger benefits are - And bonus, it includes lots of cool infographics on passenger journeys

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#102
For an example of a somewhat similar project, see Austin's bluetooth traffic sensor data:

https://github.com/cityofaustin/hack-the-traffic/tree/master...

They used to have the code used to anonymize the data available, but I can't find it. I believe they re-randomized the MAC addresses daily so you could track trips but not a device long term. With enough sensor locations that seems like it could still be vulnerable to de-anonymization to some degree.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#103
post #31

they talk about some great benefit for the passanger but they did not say what it actually is...

This is currently the only method available to get good estimates of # of people on a platform - unless you would prefer visual recognition software. TfL needs this information to be able to stop overcrowding on platforms.

how?

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#104
post #75

That is a pretty misleading headline - this isn't asking to see their text messages or something like that; It's just tracking when and where a MAC address is seen in order to work out traffic trends. In fact some of the data looks really interesting: https://imgur.com/Hx6mDSm.jpg (credit to bcraven for the link) Most large public WiFi deploys come with this capability already included (albeit normally with an additi…

The article does seem to be blowing up a relatively small issue. However, if the intent is to work out traffic trends, it can be done much cleaner. For example, one can only track addresses within a single commute (it should not be difficult to guess from data). That is, use different hashes for the same MAC at different trips. Also, IMO any general purpose data the government collects for the public benefit that it…

[deleted]

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#105

That is a pretty misleading headline - this isn't asking to see their text messages or something like that; It's just tracking when and where a MAC address is seen in order to work out traffic trends. In fact some of the data looks really interesting: https://imgur.com/Hx6mDSm.jpg (credit to bcraven for the link) Most large public WiFi deploys come with this capability already included (albeit normally with an additi…

Having a state run public transport utility track everyone's mobile devices' unique IDs. Huh. You're seriously asking why this might be sensitive?

Wow, I guess you guys in the UK are seriously desensitized to data invasions like that.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#106

That is a pretty misleading headline - this isn't asking to see their text messages or something like that; It's just tracking when and where a MAC address is seen in order to work out traffic trends. In fact some of the data looks really interesting: https://imgur.com/Hx6mDSm.jpg (credit to bcraven for the link) Most large public WiFi deploys come with this capability already included (albeit normally with an additi…

Having a state run public transport utility track everyone's mobile devices' unique IDs. Huh. You're seriously asking why this might be sensitive? Wow, I guess you guys in the UK are seriously desensitized to data invasions like that.

All this stuff is tracked all the time anyway through cell towers, it's way past where the regularization point is for "state intrusion" in the UK.

That might seem weird to an outsider but that's just a culture difference. We're just as weirded out that anyone can own even a handgun in the US, let alone walk down the street with one.

I'm personally far more weirded out by the idea that a private company can track and use this data than the fact the state can.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#107
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having a state run public transport utility track everyone's mobile devices' unique IDs. Huh. You're seriously asking why this might be sensitive? Wow, I guess you guys in the UK are seriously desensitized to data invasions like that.

All this stuff is tracked all the time anyway through cell towers, it's way past where the regularization point is for "state intrusion" in the UK. That might seem weird to an outsider but that's just a culture difference. We're just as weirded out that anyone can own even a handgun in the US, let alone walk down the street with one. I'm personally far more weirded out by the idea that a private company can track and…

My two major turnoffs for living in the London area (which otherwise, based on my multiple visits so far, seems lovely) are:

a) the pervasive surveillance (i don't think it's by chance that "black mirror" is written by someone - charlie brooker- living there)

b) the stupidly high housing costs

(in that order, actually)

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite believe this because they could have additional readers set up that can read at a distance.

That’s nonsense and not how RFID readers should or realistically will work.

What do you mean should, are you an RF or electrical engineer of sorts?

There have been demonstrations of activists scanning in-clothes rfid identification from 100 meters across on the streets, which were used for store inventory assesment before.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#109

I only connect to their WiFi to email my workmates, and say "sorry I'm runnning late again, ----ing Circle line'. They can intercept that traffic as often as they like.

They're not logging any wifi traffic.

They're storing a hash of your MAC address and timestamp - the idea is to log foot traffic over time.

I think this issue has been blown up somewhat by people who don't understand the technical issues.

Re: Transport for London plans to collect data from passengers' mobiles

#110
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understood them to offer wifi service and track its use, but maybe I was reading too much into it. The revenue was discussed as coming from targeted advertising implying tracking of data usage. I'm skeptical for a different reason: all they're going to see is a bunch of connections to facebook servers which will all look alike. /s

"Targeted advertising" in the sense of real-world, physical targeting. Like, where should adverts be placed in the station to maximise exposure. That doesn't require and collection of data, and they have explicitly ruled out doing such collection.

They already have, e.g. adverts that run in parts down escalators. If you know plenty of people go from one corridor to another, you could extend such segmentation across corridors.

I imagine they can also do differential pricing of adverts across more of the stations with a better idea of footfall (though simple point footfall figures can be got in simpler ways), and indeed that is apparently part of what they're doing.

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