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More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

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Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#101

Post by 13of40 »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #68
13of40 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the real problem is that we've developed this caste system over the last 50 years where people who don't get college degrees are excluded from careers that can sustain a middle class lifestyle. What if free college just moves the goal post and in a couple more decades nearly everyone has a Master's degree and you need a PhD to earn a decent living? What happens if the most talented segment of our work force end…

Interesting, if you think that education is a race to the bottom in credentialling though, what is your solution? If you were running a business wouldn't you prefer a PhD to a MS to a BS holding everything else equal?

I think it really depends on the job. I've managed people who were in entry level software jobs who had PhDs, and having the higher degree didn't translate into better performance.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#102

Post by gozur88 »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #23
ep103 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such a silly meme. Its not "due to government involvement." Its "due to the manner of government involvement." Loans that are guaranteed by the government, for all students, that can't be discharged by bankruptcy, is an idea clearly put together by lenders. If we wanted government subsidies for private education, there are plenty of alternatives. Here's one: government guaranteed loans for all students; but r…

Or we could make public college free, just like we did with high school.

Why would we?

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#103

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

13of40 wrote: post #101
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting, if you think that education is a race to the bottom in credentialling though, what is your solution? If you were running a business wouldn't you prefer a PhD to a MS to a BS holding everything else equal?

I think it really depends on the job. I've managed people who were in entry level software jobs who had PhDs, and having the higher degree didn't translate into better performance.

Yeah but that's what I'm saying, once you've hired them then you might find out different but purely within the hiring process a PhD is preferrable to a BS. And the predicament may be tough but if there is no solution to it, why even take it into consideration? That's why I asked what you would do about it.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#104

Post by jaclaz »

fhood wrote: post #37
jaclaz wrote: post #17

In a nutshell, as a generic reasoning, say that a few years ago the student loan was about US$ 100,000 and once you got the degree you had - on average - a higher pay of around US$ 10,000 per year (net). You could repay it in 10 years time while living at the same level of your non-graduated friends. Now say that the student loan averages US$ 150,000 and - still on average - the increase in annual wages is US$ 7,500…

Speaking of lessened "value" of degrees, University's need to be held accountable for some of the debt that they are encouraging students to take on. For example, at my public university, STEM students were charges several thousand dollars a year more than humanities students. STEM programs also did their best to discourage enrollment. Meanwhile the anthropology department is literally begging students to stay and ge…

>For example, at my public university, STEM students were charges several thousand dollars a year more than humanities students. STEM programs also did their best to discourage enrollment. Meanwhile the anthropology department is literally begging students to stay and get a masters or phd with them.

BUT you need also to compare what the labour market (outside the University) offers to a professor level mathematician, engineer or technologist and what it offers to a brilliant anthropologist.

Also, try remembering last time you saw an ad where someone was looking to hire an anthropologist (or an archeologist, a literature major, etc.).

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#105

Post by 13of40 »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #103
13of40 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it really depends on the job. I've managed people who were in entry level software jobs who had PhDs, and having the higher degree didn't translate into better performance.

Yeah but that's what I'm saying, once you've hired them then you might find out different but purely within the hiring process a PhD is preferrable to a BS. And the predicament may be tough but if there is no solution to it, why even take it into consideration? That's why I asked what you would do about it.

"All things being equal" is a very contrived situation. I think a better question is whether you'd pick a PhD candidate over a BS who, for example, could code a little bit better. (And for me the answer is I'd probably pick the BS, but I'd have to justify it to the people above me, which could be a challenge.)

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#106

Post by vilmosi »

13of40 wrote: post #59
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we could make public college free, just like we did with high school.

Maybe the real problem is that we've developed this caste system over the last 50 years where people who don't get college degrees are excluded from careers that can sustain a middle class lifestyle. What if free college just moves the goal post and in a couple more decades nearly everyone has a Master's degree and you need a PhD to earn a decent living? What happens if the most talented segment of our work force end…

Free college doesn't necessarily mean that everybody gets to go though.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#107

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

13of40 wrote: post #105
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but that's what I'm saying, once you've hired them then you might find out different but purely within the hiring process a PhD is preferrable to a BS. And the predicament may be tough but if there is no solution to it, why even take it into consideration? That's why I asked what you would do about it.

"All things being equal" is a very contrived situation. I think a better question is whether you'd pick a PhD candidate over a BS who, for example, could code a little bit better. (And for me the answer is I'd probably pick the BS, but I'd have to justify it to the people above me, which could be a challenge.)

Well sure but "all thing being equal" is what someone who is considering whether to go for further schooling is considering. I'm me, I have all my qualities, would I be more likely to be hired (and get a higher wage) w/ a BS or w/ a PhD? That's why I pose it that way and that's why I ask for what your answer to this problem is, it's not about who you would pick, it's about what drives people to "overachieve" in their credentialling in the first place.

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#108

Post by 1_2__4 »

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is great, and yet it seems like most anecdotal evidence I see and read about suggest this is all hollow, and things are actually really bad for the average American.

I don’t know. I know how it sounds. But I can’t stop thinking that stuff isn’t adding up. And this article is one more to add to the pile of “how can this be happening if the economy is actually healthy, at least in a way that means people’s financial lives are healthy and prosperous?”

Re: More Americans Are Falling Behind on Student Loans, and Nobody Quite Knows Why

#109

Post by kozikow »

1_2__4 wrote: post #108

I hate sounding both old and weird but I cannot shake the feeling that much of the claims of economic health and growth in the US is... if not fake (I’m not totally nuts) but not accurate. My most charitable interpretation if I’m right is that we’re using the wrong metrics (possibly intentionally) that give a distorted view of the economy. But I keep hearing employment is great, productivity is great, stock market is…

The top captures all the economic growth: http://time.com/money/4371332/income-inequality-recession/ .
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