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Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

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Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#101
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deliveroo also take 30% of the food sale so I always assumed the £2.50 went to the rider, which seems like decent amount.

Yeah, I forgot to say that. 30% is very similar to just eat's take too. Seeing as the minimum order is invariably £10, the minimum take for deliveroo is £5 per order, but I'm guessing it's usually more like £7-£10. They'll definitely still be able to make money after a change in status.

Where have you got that 30% number from? I am pretty sure it was around 10% four years ago in most parts of western Europe and it would surprise me seeing it tripled.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like from the comments below they can take out 30% of the cost of the food. Assuming average of £20/order, that's £6/order, which could work. Still doesn't seem like a great deal for the consumer / restaurant. E.g. I'm paying £8.50 of a £22.50 order purely on delivery, and I don't even get table service...

Part of the idea is that you were already paying that £6, or more, in advertising costs the restaurant pays and that Deliveroo is more efficient at customer acquisition than the average restaurant is.

I think restaurants would be happy to pay 30% for new customer, but for subsequent orders, Deliveroo should take smaller cuts. I wonder if something like this part of agreement.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#103
post #73
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, a few motorbikes/bicycles temporarily waiting next to each other is not such a big deal to me in comparison to the fact that roughly half of every street in every big city in the UK is dedicated to parked cars. Putting aside the apparently shitty working conditions at gig economy companies like Deliveroo (which I dearly hope will be resolved with all the recent bad publicity around Uber and co), I like th…

You say that Deliveroo has shitty working conditions and I probably don't disagree (I know nothing of them), but I'm a second year university student and I'm being pressured to find a job by my parents while I'm here; Deliveroo seems like my best bet at the moment with flexible hours; I probably wouldn't be making any more than minimum wage elsewhere anyway. I hope that's some insight as to why it's attractive to som…

That's the crux of this whole gig economy debate - for some people, these kinds of jobs are ideal: zero hours contracts, with the ability to work more or less depending on what else is going on in your life.

That being said, some people take these jobs because they're the only ones they can get. I don't know your circumstances, so I'm going to guess here, but from what you write it sounds like you have the safety net of your parents if things go wrong. While you study you may also have access to a student loan and/or support from your parents mandated by law (let's not get into an argument about how crappy student loans are, but at least they're an income during your studies). Since you're attending university, I might guess you're at an age where you don't yet care about paying into a pension. Again - making wild assumptions here - but if you don't have kids, you probably don't care if your work-life balance is skewed heavily towards studying and earning, at the expense of sleep and general health.

For some others, though, their job is all they have, and "gig economy" jobs are the only ones they can get. This creates the perfect environment for exploitative working practices, where dodgy loopholes are used to underpay and overwork staff, who can be dropped at an instant if the company needs to save money or if workers start to complain about conditions.

If Deliveroo and other gigs were worked by students in their free time, I don't think this would be such an issue. The problem is that, increasingly, people without safety nets are joining these companies and working effectively full time, and no longer just for occasional "gigs" a few times a week. That, in my book, requires that they are given the same rights as any other full time workers: holidays, sick pay, pension contributions, grievance procedures and other benefits.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of the idea is that you were already paying that £6, or more, in advertising costs the restaurant pays and that Deliveroo is more efficient at customer acquisition than the average restaurant is.

I think it's also about how you don't need the front of house elements for a delivery order. No need for extra real estate for tables, wait staff, etc. All you need is a kitchen, someone to cook the food and the ingredients.

That might be the theory. In practice, even if I click the "only on Deliveroo" option, I'm looking at a list of restaurants that spend a fortune on premises and their own marketing campaigns (including at chain level); they're selling on Deliveroo not because they don't already have high marketing and premises costs (to pass on) but because they're really not expecting enough takeaway orders to justify running their own delivery operation.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#105
post #73
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, a few motorbikes/bicycles temporarily waiting next to each other is not such a big deal to me in comparison to the fact that roughly half of every street in every big city in the UK is dedicated to parked cars. Putting aside the apparently shitty working conditions at gig economy companies like Deliveroo (which I dearly hope will be resolved with all the recent bad publicity around Uber and co), I like th…

You say that Deliveroo has shitty working conditions and I probably don't disagree (I know nothing of them), but I'm a second year university student and I'm being pressured to find a job by my parents while I'm here; Deliveroo seems like my best bet at the moment with flexible hours; I probably wouldn't be making any more than minimum wage elsewhere anyway. I hope that's some insight as to why it's attractive to som…

  "Deliveroo seems like my best bet at the moment with flexible hours"
  "I probably wouldn't be making any more than minimum wage elsewhere"
I wonder - and I'd be interested to hear your experience in this - how in-demand you end up becoming. Do your available hours coincide with other students, in which case, is your time mostly spent sitting around waiting, competing with a number of other people for a small number of deliveries?

Do Deliveroo guarantee minimum wage for your time spent available, or do you effectively earn less than minimum wage, because you spend the majority of your time waiting for an order?

I can see why Deliveroo may appear attractive, but wonder whether the appeal might wear off once you have first-hand experience of their operation.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#106
post #47
post #5

Another unicorn that can only exist because it uses fake self-employment to turn their workforce into a cheaper one. Just like Uber and so many others this only works because for some reason turning paid work into something that is not even self-sustaining suddenly is accepted. Does nobody have ethical issues with seeing value in devaluing people?

Delivering food is not a high value activity. Most people are only willing to pay a few dollars to have food delivered to them. If you raise the cost of employing low skill workers then many of these business models cease to exist. It's hard to survive on very low wages. That's one reason we have a social safety net. Many argue that it should be the company's responsibility to pay their workers higher wages and not s…

If most people are not willing to pay a sustainable price for delivering food, they have to cook or walk to the restaurant. It is not the task of social services to pay for that.

I also have strong objections to the notion of unskilled work here. Any kind of work requires training and skills, and I think you should never take the high road of having better education. It's in general 40 hours of your life time for any job you do. Coming back to that... is it realistic that all people having higher income now pay for food deliveries so that some companies can make money? I doubt it. That questionable both from economic and ethical viewpoints.

Regarding the advance of our economy I can not agree. We are basically recessing to 19th century trades and valuation of work. Just because things are IT based mostly now that does not make up a more advanced economy. Looking at laws, work practices, standards, I dare to say: we are actually watching the whole of mankind failing to take the next step.

We've made it to value of an individuals work, now we're killing that where instead we could also be asking us if our actual views on working and monetary compensation make sense.

From my point of view (and I've been on the crazy low and high paid side), it does not. As does compensating low paid jobs from all tax payers money instead of simply putting companies out of business if they can not sustain themselves.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#107

Currently there is a £2.50 fee for deliveries in London with Deliveroo. Even with extreme optimization a Deliveroo rider can't possibly make more than 3-4 "proper" deliveries in an hour (food gets cold fast! And when it gets returned deliveroo & the restaurant suffers) so maybe they can generate around £10/hour in revenue for Deliveroo. Then you need to take out costs for the driver, development, marketing, integrati…

Do people really return their food? I usually vote with my feet. I walked away from just eat precisely because this sort of experience.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#108
post #73
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, a few motorbikes/bicycles temporarily waiting next to each other is not such a big deal to me in comparison to the fact that roughly half of every street in every big city in the UK is dedicated to parked cars. Putting aside the apparently shitty working conditions at gig economy companies like Deliveroo (which I dearly hope will be resolved with all the recent bad publicity around Uber and co), I like th…

You say that Deliveroo has shitty working conditions and I probably don't disagree (I know nothing of them), but I'm a second year university student and I'm being pressured to find a job by my parents while I'm here; Deliveroo seems like my best bet at the moment with flexible hours; I probably wouldn't be making any more than minimum wage elsewhere anyway. I hope that's some insight as to why it's attractive to som…

Look into work-study opportunities on campus. You may be able to find a job which is connected to your major.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#109
post #69

I find it funny they're claiming some sort of AI system will help them make better margins. In my city, Nottingham. all the deliveroo people gather in Trinity Square waiting for jobs. There's obviously no special AI needed. I do think though that it raises the issue that they should be paying for their own business premises and stop using our public spaces as their company waiting spots.

To be fair Nottingham city centre is tiny, and Trinity Square is bang in the middle. It's obviously a market that would not benefit from some fancy AI system.

Tiny? It's a bit more compact than other cities, but it's certainly not tiny. It's also damn hilly, which the riders can't enjoy much.

Try a bunch of cities at 200m zoom in google maps.

Re: Deliveroo raises $385M in new funding

#110
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deliveroo also take 30% of the food sale so I always assumed the £2.50 went to the rider, which seems like decent amount.

Wow, 30%? So restaurants that use deliveroo I should be able to ask for at least a 20% discount for collecting food? Sounds like Groupon's modus , once the restaurants realise they're giving away such a large part of their profits surely they stop using them? Isn't it cheaper to have your own delivery people? Edit: Thinking about it, if I order pizza for £20, the company adds £2.50 for delivery. So £8.50 is being spe…

  a normal taxi is about £5 for that trip;
  an Uber or similar must be cheaper
Uber's fares are subsidised (59%) by their VC funding [1], so they make a poor long-term comparison. Expect them to either corner the market, at which point fares go up, or run out of runway.

[1] https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/9a3vye/uber-true-...

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