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The tech sec­tor might be evil

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Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#101

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

tanilama wrote: post #43
throwaway613834 wrote: post #4

What sucks is I can't just tell my friends "you're working for an evil company -- just look at {insert 5 evil things they did in the past couple years}". It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself -- I almost feel they somehow got brainwashed into their jobs. But who would enjoy hearing that? At best they would ignore it; at worst you'd…

Best advice is don't do this. Your friends are adults, and 1000 people work for a company for 1000 different reasons. It is a job after all. Not everyone is comfortable being given moral lectures.

Which justifies doing evil or letting people do evil how exactly?

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#103

Post by throwaway613834 »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #92
throwaway613834 wrote: post #4

What sucks is I can't just tell my friends "you're working for an evil company -- just look at {insert 5 evil things they did in the past couple years}". It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself -- I almost feel they somehow got brainwashed into their jobs. But who would enjoy hearing that? At best they would ignore it; at worst you'd…

> It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself Evidently not? I'd really be curious how you come to that conclusion, when they apparently don't have the first clue as to how to recognize evil, nor do they seem to care? Are you sure that that's not just the image they promote of themselves, rather than an actual assessment of their behavio…

> Evidently not? I'd really be curious how you come to that conclusion

Uhm... what sort of a response are you expecting that could convince you here?

> when they apparently don't have the first clue as to how to recognize evil, nor do they seem to care?

How are you so certain that I'm recognizing the evil correctly in the first place? Wouldn't it make a lot more sense to first question that before questioning my assessment of my friends' character?

> Are you sure that that's not just the image they promote of themselves, rather than an actual assessment of their behaviour?

How high of a bar is "sure" for you? I'm not even "sure" I understand all of my own parents' motivations in life well, let alone my friends'. The way you phrase your question I don't get the impression I could meet that bar realistically about anyone. I can say I'm "sure" enough that I'm considering the possibility of them getting brainwashed as significantly more likely than them having poor moral character. Not sure what other metric I can use really.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#104

Post by theoh »

davedx wrote: post #2

Good summary of the current political climate around the tech sector. To be honest, this has been a long time coming -- I've been reading pieces with disdain for "Silicon Valley technocrats" for a while now. It is picking up pace now, though... and the EU has already fired quite a few shots. "I left out Twit­ter be­cause it’s not ac­tu­al­ly a com­pa­ny, it’s a dys­func­tion­al non-profit that ac­ci­den­tal­ly pro­vi…

As far as that Twitter comment goes: I've always found Bray to be a bit too pleased with himself and not as clever as he would like to think he is. In that context, it's not a humorous bit of side eye but a tedious manifestation of his superiority complex.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#105

Post by adrianratnapala »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #6
throwaway613834 wrote: post #4

What sucks is I can't just tell my friends "you're working for an evil company -- just look at {insert 5 evil things they did in the past couple years}". It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself -- I almost feel they somehow got brainwashed into their jobs. But who would enjoy hearing that? At best they would ignore it; at worst you'd…

If you're a friend, you won't try to control them. Debate in search for truth; admit you might be the one who's wrong. Especially to yourself. But never control. That's a philosophy that bit me hard when I didn't follow it, so just trying to pass it along. I think techies are far too used to wielding power. Assume for a moment that the world is evil. What now? Historically, the answer was "Accept it." The idea that w…

> If you're a friend, you won't try to control them.

Damn straight. But also not relevant to what throwawayN's post. He/she/it is worried about offending people and not worried about a lack of control.

I say buggrit, don't worry, just tell it like you imagine it its. That is in no way an attempt to control.

I'm a Googler, and glad to be one. But if you want to tell me that Google is evil, well that's great. We could dive deep and find out about what your objections are, and have a great time talking about what is right and wrong about your thoughts and right and wrong about my company.

But if I were the sort get all outraged by our mere opinion, then it would be me trying to control you. In which case, why would my feelings be worth damn?

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#106

Post by moduspol »

I think the concerns in the post are overstated. These "monopolies" aren't as strong as suggested, and tech is certainly not the only industry often targeted with similar claims.

It's probably more accurate to say that some people have an innate dislike of large corporations, which I can understand, but falls short of "the tech sector might be evil."

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#107

Post by adrianratnapala »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #92
throwaway613834 wrote: post #4

What sucks is I can't just tell my friends "you're working for an evil company -- just look at {insert 5 evil things they did in the past couple years}". It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself -- I almost feel they somehow got brainwashed into their jobs. But who would enjoy hearing that? At best they would ignore it; at worst you'd…

> It sucks even more that these are some of the kindest and most caring people I know, with better moral character than myself Evidently not? I'd really be curious how you come to that conclusion, when they apparently don't have the first clue as to how to recognize evil, nor do they seem to care? Are you sure that that's not just the image they promote of themselves, rather than an actual assessment of their behavio…

This is dangerous.

You are slipping in an assumption that the moral character of people is well reflected by the social institutions they belong to. Nothing I have seen about the world, or read about history gives the slightest hint favouring that assumption.

Worse, you are implying that people should be judged by what social context they exist in. It seems far more likely that good people and bad people can end up in all sorts of situtions.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#108

Post by tanilama »

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC wrote: post #101
tanilama wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best advice is don't do this. Your friends are adults, and 1000 people work for a company for 1000 different reasons. It is a job after all. Not everyone is comfortable being given moral lectures.

Which justifies doing evil or letting people do evil how exactly?

Depends. If they are just writing regular code for some subsystems' subsytem, why is that evil? TBH, calling out a person to quit just because one don't agree his/her employer's deeds before having a full understanding whether that person is directly involved or not, tells quite a lot about one's hubris.

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#109

Post by wink »

Submission: The tech sec­tor might be evil

URL: Tech-is-evil

Actual headline: You Might Be Evil

I know we all like to moan about editorializing titles, but this one's a winner :)

Re: The tech sec­tor might be evil

#110

Post by taway_1212 »

geomark wrote: post #21

Not to mention the many (ex) friends working for "defense" contractors. Ex because I really can't be friends with them any longer. Evil quotes deployed because calling it defense is a farce considering what the systems they are developing are used for.

I never understood the disdain for working in the arms sector. After all, weapons are just tools, it's the politicians who decide what to do with them. You should despise the king, not the gunsmith.
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