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NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

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Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#101
post #96
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live near Yellowstone (as in going there, seeing the sights and going home is a day trip with time to spare) and always tell people that we're the lucky ones. If the Yellowstone volcano ever goes in our lifetime we'll die instantly. If it goes off, most of the populated world is going to die anyways, might as well be the first.

Serious question: is your house insured against volcano?

No, I'm pretty sure there would be no one to make a claim even if they were.

Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#102

Seems like it might be prudent to first try extracting 35% of the heat from a volcano smaller than the Yellowstone Caldera. We might learn some things, and if we get it wrong the consequences don't result in widespread starvation. That said, it's obvious that this plan is just the start of serious investigation into how we can engineer mitigations to an eruption at Yellowstone. I would be interested in seeing a model…

I don't think we dare trigger any eruptions at Yellowstone, ever ever ever. My understanding is that there's a positive feedback loop that kicks in; there's just no way to know the whole thing won't go up. But the plan of drilling into the bottom of the magma chamber from the sides sounds like it might be safe enough. The pressure is much higher there, which ironically is safer because it keeps dissolved gases from c…

Apparently a drop in pressure causes a chain reaction. When pressure drops all the dissolved gases come out of the magma like bubbles in a shaken up soda. This results in a massive increase in volume.

Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#103

I was just in Yellowstone so much is still unknown about it and the more I read about it and saw the more afraid I became of it. At one point we saw a crater the size of a city block it was a geyser then in the 80s exploded and killed a few people. I got to thinking "WTF are we doing here this thing is going to blow at any time!?"

In Bill Bryson's book, A Short History of Nearly Everything, he talks about the dangers of Yellowstone and how catastrophic the eruption would be, however, he also points out that these potential eruptions are often preceded by a period of elevated signs of volcanic activity, which as I understand, Yellowstone is not currently experiencing. Of course, geological timelines are impossible to predict, but until I read t…

A slight correction -- in the book, he says explicitly that we think it would come with elevated signs of activity. But 1/ we have no idea, since we have very little knowledge of the last eruption; and 2/ there are large variations in activity currently -- we have no idea if we would be able to differentiate the current "everything seems okay" increased activity from "SHTF" activity.

Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#104
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what your definition of infinite is but that doesn't sound right at all, and further your argument applies equally to all existential risks, so it doesn't really tell you that you shouldn't work on this particular one.

"Instead, we need to build resilience into our society" is the key here, many many things can happen.

Societal resilience doesn't protect much against the massive widespread death and suffering that can happen. Preventing a Yellowstone eruption does.

It's just a different objective, although they overlap.

Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#105

Sounds like we just need to convince some high tech billionaire that they need a supervillain lair powered by geothermal energy. Maybe power a data center or something. Put that excess heat to good use :-)

Too bad Kim Dotocm isn't wealthy enough (anymore?) to do this. I'm picturing him as the supervillain who builds out an encrypted data storage facility, like out of Cryptonomicon.

Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#106

This just looks like an attempt to get geothermal energy from Yellowstone. The 6GW power getting out of the ground now is really nothing compared to the energy that's down there. Thermal conduction and fluid transport are what allows the energy to the surface. Adding geo-thermal power generation would increase energy dissipated but would do little to actually change the geologic situation. I suspect if you asked powe…

Indeed, as it seems NASA's best capability is to 'get free money from the government' (not volcano nor space exploration as many would expect).

Any agency primarily funded by government that survives past 10-15 years will have that as their primary competency.

It's more fair to judge NASA's space capabilities against all the other groups that take gov't money. They are much better at space than, say, the Department of Labor.

Just because there are recent, private entrants, who built much of their technology on the foundation work done by NASA, does not mean NASA should be mocked in this manner.

Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#107
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most grains can be stored for years under the right conditions. Sure the quality will decline over that time, but given we are feeding a large amount of grain to livestock this decline is manageable. Even having a single years buffer would be very worthwhile. As I mentioned in the OP if we have a catastrophic event in the northern summer the poor are in serious trouble.

The problem is the food you are storing is constantly going bad. So you need to recreate the entire massive food stockpile every year or so, in order to have it ready when the time comes. We'd have to find a way to efficiently cycle food through the stockpile and back to consumers before it became useless. But I doubt consumers are going to be lining up to buy old food. The food would be expensive to buy fresh, then…

Not if the stored grain was fed to livestock. We already do this in practice as we keep the high quality grain for direct human consumption, while the lower quality grain is fed to livestock.

Once the stockpile was established and the process of cycling it set up, then the cost should be relatively minor.

More importantly what is the alternative? Let everyone starve?

Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#108
post #91
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So releasing the pressure will cause the dissolved gasses to come out of solution, triggering the actual eruption? Sounds dangerous.

There should be a way to pull energy out of it without risking releasing the current pressure. The hot solid rocks above are pretty good at transferring heat, and you only need to drill part of the way into them. A very small hole can move a lot of energy.

Point is that lowering the temperature would cause an eruption if what GP says is true.

Re: NASA's plan to save Earth from a supervolcano

#109
post #101
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: is your house insured against volcano?

No, I'm pretty sure there would be no one to make a claim even if they were.

Eruptions are preceded by earthquakes, venting and other events. I think there is a good chance people would evacuate from a smaller eruption (verses a life on earth extinction event)
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