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Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

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Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#101

Post by mdip »

pvorb wrote: post #82
zbentley wrote: post #68

Possibly off-topic: this is why GitHub, and GitLab, are both problematic platforms for online collaboration and community-building. There was once a list of grievances against this person here https://github.com/nodejs/TSC/issues/310 . That list is no longer present; it has been redacted, and a reason for that redaction has been posted. As someone who has zero context for this issue, this makes it very hard for me to…

Fortunately, somebody already took a snapshot and there's a way back : https://web.archive.org/web/20170821212745/https://github.co...

That was my first thought. A lot of people in the last several years have learned the hard way that for all practical purposes, the Internet tends to be forever.

Sure, you may not be able to find that really useful utility you once used to parse regular expressions because the author stopped maintaining it, took the web site down and never released the source code[0], but that one time you[1] drank too much and tweeted something embarrassing will be discoverable on Google next to your name for decades after you die.

[0] That's been a bugger of mine for a while -- if anyone knows where Rad Regular Expression Designer went, I'll e-mail you a soda.

[1] Or when someone who shares your name and got arrested for theft (thank God he lives in a part of the country I have never visited).

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#102

Post by phiskk »

bhouston wrote: post #91
eric_b wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I, on the other hand, was curious to read his version of things so I'm glad he took the time to offer a detailed reply. After reading his "polemic" I felt he was rational, composed, and defended his actions and character rather well. I came to the conclusion that the pitchfork wielding folks were slinging a lot of unsubsta…

> Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I actually only read his side, although I stopped after a couple screen fulls as I recognized from experience that what I was reading was not a productive response to the situation at hand, but a defensive one.

When people have already mounted an attack, a polite defense seems a very reasonable response.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#103

Post by thehardsphere »

retox wrote: post #62
adamrezich wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like critiques of CoCs and other related documents and processes coming from a white male are often interpreted as hostile. At what point do we stop ignoring this inconvenient truth?

If you want to be taken seriously by these troublemaking outrage addicts as a while male, you need to get a weird haircut and to dye your hair a few different colors. Chunky glasses are a plus.

And start calling yourself a woman.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#104

Post by kuyan »

bhouston wrote: post #91
eric_b wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I, on the other hand, was curious to read his version of things so I'm glad he took the time to offer a detailed reply. After reading his "polemic" I felt he was rational, composed, and defended his actions and character rather well. I came to the conclusion that the pitchfork wielding folks were slinging a lot of unsubsta…

> Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I actually only read his side, although I stopped after a couple screen fulls as I recognized from experience that what I was reading was not a productive response to the situation at hand, but a defensive one.

> I recognized from experience that what I was reading was not a productive response to the situation at hand, but a defensive one.

What would a productive response be? I agree that getting unnecessarily mired in drama is counterproductive, but I don't think that these accusations could have been reasonably ignored, nor do I know what Rod could (or should) have done differently.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#105

Post by thehardsphere »

orless wrote: post #70

As a thought experiment imagine your manager asks you about the new node.js fork and whether you should switch to it. What would you say?

If your manager is aware enough of the situation to know there is a fork, but is not aware enough to know that the fork is pure politics, it might be time to change managers. That is such an odd superposition of being simultaneously informed and not that one couldn't help but wonder what other strategic mistakes would happen.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#106

Post by s73ver_ »

retox wrote: post #62
adamrezich wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel like critiques of CoCs and other related documents and processes coming from a white male are often interpreted as hostile. At what point do we stop ignoring this inconvenient truth?

If you want to be taken seriously by these troublemaking outrage addicts as a while male, you need to get a weird haircut and to dye your hair a few different colors. Chunky glasses are a plus.

Statements like yours do nothing to help matters.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#107

Post by dang »

GenericsMotors wrote: post #36

TLDR: core contributor displeases blue-haired SF nobodies, who fail to evict him from the project. They proceed to throw a temper-tantrum and create a useless fork which so far has done nothing but bike-shedding.

This breaks the HN guideline against name-calling, which is a really bad idea when the topic is divisive to begin with, so would you please stop doing that?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

(We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15102018 and marked it off-topic.)

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#108

Post by dang »

thehardsphere wrote: post #100
parzivalm wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While you most likely made that comment in jest. Stereotyping everyone into a category like "blue-haired SF nobodies" is rather offensive. Not saying I disagree about the temper-tantrum, but there was no reason to state it in the way you did.

It might be offensive but it sure is accurate.

It looks like you've been using HN primarily for political/ideological battle. That's destructive of what the site is for, so we ban accounts that do this, so would you please stop doing this? Intellectual curiosity can't flourish on a battlefield.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#109

Post by s73ver_ »

thwd wrote: post #6

Shame how such a cool project as node.js can drown in political fingerpointing. The only measurement that counts (in my opinion) is cold hard code contributions.

Unless you're the only contributor, you're still going to have to deal with other people, and the interactions with other people on the project.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#110

Post by Analemma_ »

tomcam wrote: post #54

A code of conduct without transparency or due process seems more than dangerous to me. It is the stuff of kangaroo courts and star chambers.

James Snell's reasoning behind hiding the accusations inside the committee deliberations is theoretically sound: to keep Rod from getting harassed. I mean, under the current circumstances, a public, enumerated list of all your supposed crimes is pretty much guaranteed to bring a mob down on your head, and it would probably rocket to the top of Google searches for your name -- regardless of how the process turned out.

But transparency in the process is also important. I don't have a good answer for this. It seems to be damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't.

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