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Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

plasma.io

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Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#101

Post by cubix »

lmm wrote: post #100
cubix wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it as so black and white. Sure, zero trust is the ideal, but there are potentially benefits even there's some trust involved. For example, I saw a headline indicating that Unicef was going to experiment with block chain technology and asset management. Charity strikes me as particularly suitable domain since benefactors are understandably concerned about how their donations are being used and there's litt…

Once you're willing to trust, you don't need the proof-of-work that makes blockchain blockchain though. A distributed append-only, log-structured, cryptographically verified is a great idea with plenty of practical applications; OTOH "mining" is an immense waste of energy to minimal benefit.

You may only need to trust some but not all actors in the system, so there may still be benefit in mining.

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#102

Post by chatmasta »

jerguismi wrote: post #17
AlwaysBCoding wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Kickstarter? A $500 million+ company that takes a 5% vig on all transacted funds can effectively be replaced with a few lines of code. If total ETH sent to contract address by date X > Amount Y then send the ETH to the fundraiser, else return the ETH.

Was tested with bitcoin: https://github.com/vinumeris/lighthouse I'm sceptical about the use-case. Collecting money for the projects is so much about other things as well, not just the money collection phase - you need a services around it, it is not just the payment collection. That said, I think it would be quite useful for kickstarter to accept btc/eth.

Exactly. The problem is that even if the core service can be replicated in a decentralized manner on the blockchain, any periphery services (discussion boards, dispute resolution) need to exist in some centralized place, developed and maintained by some centralized entity. Hell, even the crypto code itself needs to be developed/maintained by someone. It's hard to avoid centralization when somebody has to do the work of maintaining the platform, because maintenance costs money, which requires stakeholders, who will not pass up an opportunity to "collect rent" if the platform has any sort of network lock-in.

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#103

Post by corysama »

mrep wrote: post #18
AlwaysBCoding wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about Kickstarter? A $500 million+ company that takes a 5% vig on all transacted funds can effectively be replaced with a few lines of code. If total ETH sent to contract address by date X > Amount Y then send the ETH to the fundraiser, else return the ETH.

Then why has nobody done that then? It blows my mind how so many people proliferate how useful blockchain companies can be yet despite all of the different blockchains, ICO's..., practically none [1] have taken off because they are technologically and economically worse than current market products and services. [1]: Illegal markets are the only market I have seen that do like it because companies/governments have sp…

> Then why has nobody done that then?

http://www.sgsme.sg/news/startups/singapore-startup-launchin...

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#104

Post by DennisP »

mmckeen wrote: post #46

Plasma is already the name of KDE's desktop interface. Reusing the name of an already known project is confusing.

And before KDE, plasma was already the name of a state of matter. It wasn't confusing to reuse it for KDE's interface because the context makes it clear. Same here.

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#105

Post by chatmasta »

runeks wrote: post #99
iso-8859-1 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A channel is committed to using one unspent transaction output (UTXO), settling it consumes only that UTXO and all of the other channels a given party might have are completely unrelated. What is the use of the hub? You can just connect the merchant directly, even if you are just an occasional customer. You don't need the entire blockchain to use LN, so more users will be running Lightning nodes than Bitcoin nodes. I…

> If you have an intermediary node (you call it a hub), there is no requirement for it to close its channel with the merchant, once you close your channel with that intermediary node. As far as I can see, merchants receiving payments over payment channels is unrealistic, because it requires: 1) the merchant to predict what its revenue will be this week/month 2) the merchant (or someone else) to lock up this entire am…

Who says the merchant needs to do that work? Specialized companies run like exchanges (or payment networks) could run the nodes on behalf of the merchants, much like bitpay does today. Of course, then you're just back where you started, with a banking institution controlling payments. But perhaps it would be more decentralized than four big payment companies, and that could be a step in the right direction.

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#106

Post by dragonwriter »

AlwaysBCoding wrote: post #5
contingencies wrote: post #2

Smart contracts are being suggested as the building block of "autonomous corporations" (implying "do anything!") yet nearly anything meaningful basically has to interact with the real world through agents external to the contract for most business cases. Given this severe limitation, could someone clarify what the whole shebang is supposed to be about? I actually saw Vitalik speak last week or so here in Shenzhen cam…

What about Kickstarter? A $500 million+ company that takes a 5% vig on all transacted funds can effectively be replaced with a few lines of code. If total ETH sent to contract address by date X > Amount Y then send the ETH to the fundraiser, else return the ETH.

> What about Kickstarter? A $500 million+ company that takes a 5% vig on all transacted funds can effectively be replaced with a few lines of code.

No, it can't.

> If total ETH sent to contract address by date X > Amount Y then send the ETH to the fundraiser, else return the ETH.

Somehow missing the tracking of backers and rewards, the mutual identification of the parties, and the enforceable obligations with regard to rewards. Kinda key features of Kickstarter.

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#107

Post by k__ »

contingencies wrote: post #2

Smart contracts are being suggested as the building block of "autonomous corporations" (implying "do anything!") yet nearly anything meaningful basically has to interact with the real world through agents external to the contract for most business cases. Given this severe limitation, could someone clarify what the whole shebang is supposed to be about? I actually saw Vitalik speak last week or so here in Shenzhen cam…

Well, they could automate much of the financial side of a corporation and make many accountants obsolete.

They make up a big part of many corporations that costs much money but doesn't bring any benefits to the products.

They do work that I'd deem difficult, but that would also lend itself to automation with smart contracts very well.

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#108

Post by dkural »

AlwaysBCoding wrote: post #5
contingencies wrote: post #2

Smart contracts are being suggested as the building block of "autonomous corporations" (implying "do anything!") yet nearly anything meaningful basically has to interact with the real world through agents external to the contract for most business cases. Given this severe limitation, could someone clarify what the whole shebang is supposed to be about? I actually saw Vitalik speak last week or so here in Shenzhen cam…

What about Kickstarter? A $500 million+ company that takes a 5% vig on all transacted funds can effectively be replaced with a few lines of code. If total ETH sent to contract address by date X > Amount Y then send the ETH to the fundraiser, else return the ETH.

Kickstarter outcompetes other competitors and individuals trying to raise their own money due to network effect and native distribution you get for your project.

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#109

Post by ascendantlogic »

contingencies wrote: post #2

Smart contracts are being suggested as the building block of "autonomous corporations" (implying "do anything!") yet nearly anything meaningful basically has to interact with the real world through agents external to the contract for most business cases. Given this severe limitation, could someone clarify what the whole shebang is supposed to be about? I actually saw Vitalik speak last week or so here in Shenzhen cam…

"Why would we use this new technology when the current stuff works just fine?"

I feel like this song and dance precedes all major shifts in technology.

Re: Plasma: Scalable Autonomous Smart Contracts

#110

Post by dragonwriter »

IanCal wrote: post #98
phlo wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part of Kickstarter you're describing isn't worth any significant fraction of these $500m. If it were, Indiegogo, Gofundme and all others in the space would need to be well on the unicorn track. A saying goes "Ideas are cheap, execution is everything". That's where this value of $500m comes in. It's in the brand reputation the company has built. In the traffic they generate by people browsing their site and disco…

> You can get someone to write the necessary code for "if funded send to x, else return funds" on any freelance site for a four-digit amount Can you do so in a way that I as a funder don't need to trust you the intermediary?

> Can you do so in a way that I as a funder don't need to trust you the intermediary?

No, and you can't with smart contracts either (the intermediary being the creator of the contract), unless funders are restricted to people with the skill to analyze the contract code. As proven by the DAO.

And even if you could, you've replaced only a small-and-useless-in-isolation piece of Kickstarter by doing so.

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