NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand • Hacker News Board

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#101

Post by bgentry » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 3:19 AM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #85

43gg43g32g wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> seriously doubt the NSA was tasked with working a non-terrorism related piracy case They go after literally everything. Do people not remember the snowden leaks?

Which Snowden leak showed that the NSA was being used to aid piracy investigations? I'm not disputing they had the technical ability to suck up various Kim Dotcom selectors, just that they have no public reason to do so and there is no evidence that they have.

While I don't recall any leaks specific to piracy investigations, there were numerous leaks proving NSA involvement in cases which could in no way be described as relating to terrorism.

Off the top of my head:

- NSA surveillance of the semi-public Brazilian oil company Petrobras: http://g1.globo.com/fantastico/noticia/2013/09/nsa-documents...

- NSA tapped the phone of German Chancellor Angela Merkel: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/merkel-calls-obama...

- NSA spying of Indian diplomats to uncover details about their nuclear and space programs: http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/india-among-top-target...

This article is a decent compilation of Snowden-related stories from the first year after his leaks: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-leaks-timeline-2016-9

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#102

Post by bgentry » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 3:22 AM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #44

The only mention of NSA seems to come from Kim... His logic appears to be that as a Five Eyes member the NSA and GCSB have some shared resources and that means the NSA used those resources to spy on him. That might be true, but he has no evidence that the NSA cares one bit about him. I seriously doubt the NSA was tasked with working a non-terrorism related piracy case, but that's me. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.c…

> I seriously doubt the NSA was tasked with working a non-terrorism related piracy case, but that's me.

There are many examples of NSA and Five Eyes spying that have absolutely nothing to do with terrorism (though afaik none specific to copyright infringement). I linked to a handful in this other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14907667

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#103

Post by goatsi » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:14 AM UTC

bgentry wrote: post #101

jonknee wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Snowden leak showed that the NSA was being used to aid piracy investigations? I'm not disputing they had the technical ability to suck up various Kim Dotcom selectors, just that they have no public reason to do so and there is no evidence that they have.

While I don't recall any leaks specific to piracy investigations, there were numerous leaks proving NSA involvement in cases which could in no way be described as relating to terrorism. Off the top of my head: - NSA surveillance of the semi-public Brazilian oil company Petrobras: http://g1.globo.com/fantastico/noticia/2013/09/nsa-documents... - NSA tapped the phone of German Chancellor Angela Merkel: http://www.spieg…

The US government has interests beyond preventing terrorism. Do you think it should be purposefully blind to facts such as the energy security of other countries, or the capabilities of their space programs? Space programs have a very clear military "dual use" as North Korea has been demonstrating recently.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#104

Post by thomasvillain » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:24 AM UTC

syshum wrote: post #71

logfromblammo wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the IRS can collect taxes from expatriate US citizens living and working overseas, the federal courts can certainly prosecute US citizens for breaking other federal laws while abroad. Otherwise, those people might as well wipe their backsides with their Form 2555s and mail them back without checks attached!

The courts have no problem enforcing many many criminal laws on people even when the crimes occur over seas They just have a problem applying the law to the government when the actions are over seas.. Nice little loop hole they carved out for themselves...

Congress is capable of enacting laws with extraterritorial reach. I am unaware of any law that should be interpreted to criminalize the NSA's international spying.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#105

Post by Natsu » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:38 AM UTC

willstrafach wrote: post #97

woodman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which Snowden leak showed that the NSA was being used to aid piracy investigations? I'm not aware of any assistance rendered to piracy investigations, but there is ample evidence of them sharing intel for the purpose of domestic law enforcement - which is way worse. So the call for direct evidence is nice (and silly considering the nature of the evidence), but the logic of "our boys would never" is pretty soundly b…

It is fine to speculate, but I believe the "call" for direct evidence (versus unsubstantiated claims) makes sense given the headline stating the unsubstantiated claim as if it were a fact.

I wish more people would call out all stories on this more often. Given the Snowden revelations, this story is very believable to me, but we should never slack in requesting proof.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#106

Post by petre » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:52 AM UTC

wildmusings wrote: post #39

1024core wrote: post #16

Since when did the NSA become the copyright industry's police? There were no security implications of Kim's operation; why was he targeted by the NSA?

The US intelligence apparatus exists to protect the interests of the citizens of the United States. A foreigner who violates millions of dollars of intellectual property belonging to American citizens and companies is a threat to our interests, and also of the interests of the nearly 200 nations that participate in the global copyright regime, whose copyrights he was also violating. Foreigners on foreign soil have no…

> protect the interests of the citizens of the United States

Namely the RIAAA and MPAA in this particular case.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#107

Post by arca_vorago » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:59 AM UTC

drunkenmonkey wrote: post #98

arca_vorago wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I have had my tiffs with KDC (publicly on twitter usually), this entire thread that seems to ignore the five-eyes loopholes is extremely disingenuous. NSA wants everything , so that they or some other three letter can walk the cat back later from data in their massive data centers. Ever since the 90's and echelon days we knew the 47 UKUS core agreement of the "five-eyes" (which later expanded to more) was abuse…

it's time for honest people like you to stop interacting with the plebs directly, and to start to educate them through mass-spectacle more. You're of a different breed; remember it.

What kind of mass spectacle do you have in mind?

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#108

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:00 AM UTC

__jal wrote: post #60

slg wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not usually in the "if you have nothing to hide..." crowd, but this isn't some kid in Minnesota who downloaded a Metallica album. This is someone who created a business enterprise to circumvent US law. This is someone who pulled in tens if not hundreds of millions of dollars from this business. For a time this business was the single biggest source of pirated content in the world. All of this was done basically…

So what happens when a US citizen starts publishing stuff China (or Russia, or the UAE, or England, or any other state that doesn't protect free speech as we do) doesn't like? What happens in 40 years, when the US is on much less-firm footing as de facto World Cop?

[deleted]

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#109

Post by peterashford » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 5:04 AM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #44

The only mention of NSA seems to come from Kim... His logic appears to be that as a Five Eyes member the NSA and GCSB have some shared resources and that means the NSA used those resources to spy on him. That might be true, but he has no evidence that the NSA cares one bit about him. I seriously doubt the NSA was tasked with working a non-terrorism related piracy case, but that's me. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.c…

The GCSB had no reason at all to spy on Dotcom from a New Zealand perspective. The only case being brought against him is a copyright case from US claimants. Who do you think can request GCSB to do it's work for them? I don't think they would have spied on him and raided his home because a foreign business interest was concerned. Unless the request came from a 5-eyes level organisation, I'm pretty sure it would have been illegal for them to act against Dotcom.

Re: NSA Unlawfully Surveiled Kim Dotcom in New Zealand

#110

Post by honestoHeminway » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 6:27 AM UTC

peter422 wrote: post #77

moomin wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth pointing out at this point that Kim is a heavily-documented liar. If he told me the sky was blue, I'd go outside to check.

Don't worry, he has been meticulously collecting evidence and can prove everything! Unfortunately he can't post it just yet, but he'll definitely post it soon! Maybe next week! Or next month! But it's gonna be huge!!!

Guy is a star citizen