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Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

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Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#101

Post by kristofferR »

Laforet wrote: post #99
keyle wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'd be great if you could expand on that. Why doesn't it make sense, why is it too expensive, why unreasonable?

Not the poster above, but I think the main issue is with the cost to provide proof of work in a trustless network. For example, bitcoin is already at or close to the point where the most efficient mining operations have a hard time turning profit without a major bubble drawing in outside capital. 3 years from now it may well be unsustainable.

Ethereum is planning a switch away from proof of work.

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#102

Post by Jessica- »

vm wrote: post #89
abrkn wrote: post #84

At this time, there are 78 comments to this post, none of them addressing technical concerns. Quite unusual for HN. I've devoted my life to cryptocurrency since 2011 and still question whether or not this system even makes sense. It seems too expensive with the technology we have today. Once privacy, such as zk-SNARK, is added, it becomes unreasonable. Perhaps this is what a bubble looks like. I wasn't there for the…

Really intrigued by your comment! Could you elaborate on what drives the high cost? Or what would need to change for this to viable?

Annie replied I didn't even know that any one able to earn $8091 in four weeks on the computer ====http://cutt.us/7N2sG

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#103

Post by hudon »

vm wrote: post #89
abrkn wrote: post #84

At this time, there are 78 comments to this post, none of them addressing technical concerns. Quite unusual for HN. I've devoted my life to cryptocurrency since 2011 and still question whether or not this system even makes sense. It seems too expensive with the technology we have today. Once privacy, such as zk-SNARK, is added, it becomes unreasonable. Perhaps this is what a bubble looks like. I wasn't there for the…

Really intrigued by your comment! Could you elaborate on what drives the high cost? Or what would need to change for this to viable?

Decentralized validation and ordering of transactions is expensive. In Bitcoin, it requires:

1. Miners to validate 1MB of transactions every 10 minutes

2. Users to be able to confirm that the entire chain of transactions was properly validated by the miners

Some ways to make #1 more efficient make #2 more difficult, so they are somewhat at odds with each other. For now, we're looking at a write throughput of between 1tps to 20tps for Bitcoin and Ethereum.

If you don't care about #2, then you don't need the mining model anymore, or even a blockchain. You can just put all your transactions in MySQL, Cassandra, R3 Corda or whatever and you can subsequently crank up your transaction throughput. You can get >10,000tps with MySQL.

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#104

Post by Animats »

kristofferR wrote: post #101
Laforet wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the poster above, but I think the main issue is with the cost to provide proof of work in a trustless network. For example, bitcoin is already at or close to the point where the most efficient mining operations have a hard time turning profit without a major bubble drawing in outside capital. 3 years from now it may well be unsustainable.

Ethereum is planning a switch away from proof of work.

Who, exactly, gets to decide that?

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#105

Post by subway »

dpc_pw wrote: post #96

How pointless. The whole point of Bitcoin was to have uncensorable, decentralized asset that can be used to exchange value without any trust etc. That is the only reason we endure this utterly shitty and inefficient blockchain thing, and we exchange money for this otherwise pointless online points. I have no problem with ETH as cryptocurrency / smart contract platform. But this whole Enterprise Ethereum Alliance is j…

Enterprise Ethereum has almost nothing to do with Ethereum the public blockchain, or crypto-currency. Ethereum based blockchains (that is based on Ethereum the software, not the canonical global instance of that software) provide an ability to create an auditable log of events.

Those events might be "who accessed my credit card account and when" or "who requested access to my health records and when". These chains can exist entirely independently of of the global "Ethereum" chain, and can operate entirely without the concept of a crypto-currency (aside from using it as a scheduling mechanism within your blockchain cluster).

People need to stop getting hung up the cryptocurrency aspect of blockchains.

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#106

Post by Animats »

Where are the press releases from Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank about this? Press releases of "big company partners with little company", coming from the little company, are always suspicious. It may just mean "they signed up for our mailing list".

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#107

Post by 52-6F-62 »

subway wrote: post #105
dpc_pw wrote: post #96

How pointless. The whole point of Bitcoin was to have uncensorable, decentralized asset that can be used to exchange value without any trust etc. That is the only reason we endure this utterly shitty and inefficient blockchain thing, and we exchange money for this otherwise pointless online points. I have no problem with ETH as cryptocurrency / smart contract platform. But this whole Enterprise Ethereum Alliance is j…

Enterprise Ethereum has almost nothing to do with Ethereum the public blockchain, or crypto-currency. Ethereum based blockchains (that is based on Ethereum the software, not the canonical global instance of that software) provide an ability to create an auditable log of events. Those events might be "who accessed my credit card account and when" or "who requested access to my health records and when". These chains ca…

I agree. Also, the EEA is more of an R&D coordination group than anything else. It's to see if there really is something there, and these companies have joined up their R&D departments and innovation labs to do so. They have a lot of industry pull, especially together -- so if there is something viable that comes out of it, most [North American/Asian at least] people can expect it to impact the way they do things, or the way the tools they use operate.

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#108

Post by hudon »

subway wrote: post #105
dpc_pw wrote: post #96

How pointless. The whole point of Bitcoin was to have uncensorable, decentralized asset that can be used to exchange value without any trust etc. That is the only reason we endure this utterly shitty and inefficient blockchain thing, and we exchange money for this otherwise pointless online points. I have no problem with ETH as cryptocurrency / smart contract platform. But this whole Enterprise Ethereum Alliance is j…

Enterprise Ethereum has almost nothing to do with Ethereum the public blockchain, or crypto-currency. Ethereum based blockchains (that is based on Ethereum the software, not the canonical global instance of that software) provide an ability to create an auditable log of events. Those events might be "who accessed my credit card account and when" or "who requested access to my health records and when". These chains ca…

> Ethereum based blockchains provide an ability to create an auditable log of events

If all they want is a log of events, why not use a tried and true database whose performance is more well understood? MySQL, Cassandra, whatever.

You can add the ability to audit the tables by signing data updates with public key crypto.

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#109

Post by Laforet »

Animats wrote: post #104
kristofferR wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ethereum is planning a switch away from proof of work.

Who, exactly, gets to decide that?

The short answer: The developers gets to decide.

The longer answer can be found here[0]

[0]:https://www.cryptocompare.com/coins/guides/what-is-the-ether...

Re: Master Card, Cisco, and Scotiabank Join the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance

#110

Post by subway »

hudon wrote: post #108
subway wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enterprise Ethereum has almost nothing to do with Ethereum the public blockchain, or crypto-currency. Ethereum based blockchains (that is based on Ethereum the software, not the canonical global instance of that software) provide an ability to create an auditable log of events. Those events might be "who accessed my credit card account and when" or "who requested access to my health records and when". These chains ca…

> Ethereum based blockchains provide an ability to create an auditable log of events If all they want is a log of events, why not use a tried and true database whose performance is more well understood? MySQL, Cassandra, whatever. You can add the ability to audit the tables by signing data updates with public key crypto.

By using a blockchain, you enable auditing organizations to participate in the authentication process. For instance, I might publish a private message to the blockchain that is an authentication request to resource X. A smart contract would then act on that authentication request, and publish either an ACCEPT or REJECT message. By bringing auditing organizations into the blockchain, every authentication attempt is sent to the auditing organization before access is granted.

The key is that every transaction must be made known to the auditors before it is acted on. By logging to a traditional db, you're at the mercy of the party responsible for sharing out those logs.

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